WDEL Blog: Allan Loudell

Associated Press decries seizure of phone records

The Associated Press is protesting the Obama Administration's snooping into the phone records of 100 journalists.

The Justice Department got a subpoena for records covering a two-month period for 20 phone lines linked to the AP's New York, Washington, and Hartford offices.

This was apparently part of the government's investigation into the source of leaks of a C.I.A. operation in Yemen that may have short-circuited an Al Qaida plot to blow up a U.S. airliner.

Here we go again: Civil liberties vs. perceived national security.



Posted at 8:09am on May 14, 2013 by Allan Loudell

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Comments on this post:

Tue, May 14, 2013 8:24am
Boo hoo! Here we go again. The so-called "news" media worry far more about their own interests and prerogatives than anybody else's.

This has happened to thousands of individuals, groups, organizations and companies since the passage of Bush's fascistic "Patriot Act," which the media did little to challenge before it became law. The media couldn't be bothered when this was happening to others, but they expect others to care when it happens to them. This reminds me of the famous "first they came for..." poem.

The media keep acting like they are above the law. The media give fawning treatment to power in return for "access." Let's see how they like it when power turns on them.

Tue, May 14, 2013 8:24am
As often stated, this is modern life. What has to happen is the person doing the snooping must be held accountable for anything misused...

Under severe legal penalties must this be done...

Before all get in an uproar, how would we have liked if the Boston Bombers were still at-large? That's exactly what happened in the 70's pipe bomb era if you remember, and the 90's where you had a similar bomb go off at an Atlanta athletic event.

Snooping is de facto. Since we can't change that, we must absolve those snooping from being protected from lawsuits. If you get caught, you go to jail. That should give us the best of both worlds... Where snooping is done to insure our protection, but nothing ever gets out into the public domain of what they find,. No different than being honest with our doctor, knowing full well he won't tell our spouse.

Tue, May 14, 2013 8:29am
The merits of such an investigation may be debated but for the AP to write this article in this fashion would be like a politician under investigation issuing a press release about the evil investigation against him. Everyone would understand it for what it is.

Tue, May 14, 2013 8:30am

got dropped of from the above...

Tue, May 14, 2013 8:38am
And since these were through a subpoena process, a judge was involved. Far more of a correct procedure than that used under the Republican-sponsored Patriot Act, which does not require any judge to be involved.

Again, just like Benghazi, just like the IRS scheme, this issue again is Rick Jensen model of loud screaming, waving of hands, gnashing of teeth, with nothing illegal to show.

I'm embarrassed for them. Republicans look worse every time they open their mouth.. Can't even create a good crises... May they should walk around the Capitol wearing Whigs to garner attention?

Tue, May 14, 2013 9:27am
So yet another scandal...and liberals cannot admit to any.

This AP spying story has just lit a fire under the media to actually start reporting on this administration (especially Holder). Spying on the media and their confidential sources? I thought only someone "evil" like Bush could do this type of thing.

Are Barack Obama's "chickens coming home to roost"?

Tue, May 14, 2013 9:55am
Uh-oh...another scandal is on the way.

HHS Sebelius is "asking" for donations for the ObamaCare Outreach


Tue, May 14, 2013 10:08am
Again... Earl.. No fire.. Did you read that or did you just type in what Breitbart "commanded" you to do? Oops.. Looks like you got an e-mail alert... Not even Breitbart thinks it is worthy of mentioning...

Again, Republicans are saying the sky is falling... I just looked outside, oh my goodness! It is still there. lol.

Tue, May 14, 2013 10:11am
The AP spying story, if anyone is smart enough to click on the link (that is very debatable considering the IQ of Republicans) says the records were subpoenaed to follow up on a specific link related to Al Qaeda getting classified information through their AP organization....

In that case, I certainly hope they would be subpoenaed...

Silly Republicans... typing before they read... Sheesh....

Tue, May 14, 2013 10:14am
And shall we assume that Earl Gray looks the other way when corporate PACs write checks for the Republican Party? Or does he also say..."another scandal on the way?"... lol.

Tue, May 14, 2013 11:30am
Ok Allan ... now a new twist on this story just before you go to press at 12.. (so be careful how you parse it, lol)


Obama tried to protect the AP from these type of searches and it was Darrel Issa who killed it.....

Issa was one of 21 House members who opposed the Free Flow of Information Act of 2007, a measure that would have forbidden federal investigators from compelling journalists to give evidence without first obtaining a court order. The bill passed the House but died under a Republican filabuster in the Senate....

“I would say the odds are Republicans killed media shield today,” Democratic Sen. Patrick Leahy said at the time."

Hmmm. Why is Issa at the center of all these "fake" scandals we are seeing now.... hmmmm." Isn't that a little odd?

Wasn't he the guy who was arrested twice for stealing cars, blaming his brother both times?


Tue, May 14, 2013 12:33pm
kavips... Just because you failed to read some of your own recent links doesn't mean I have. The link was not about the AP story but about ObamaCare and yet another "problem" for Team Obama.

Now tell me the truth concerning the AP spying; would you be ok if it were Republicans tapping phone lines and emails? I rather doubt it. I didn't like when Bush overstepped privacy laws and I still don't like it. Read some of the reports from the AP journalists and their bosses...they are LIVID!

And, sorry I found the link all by myself using wonderful Bing...try it sometime. Apparently you outted yourself as one who does the bidding of some "emailer behind the progressive curtain" telling you what to post or tweet.. but I am on no such lists.

Tue, May 14, 2013 1:31pm
Ok, it took some time to work though your gibberish to see what you could actually be talking about. I figured it out. While I was typing a response to an earlier comment of yours, the Sibelius story got inserted by you, leading to the confusion that I appear to be answering the wrong topic to the wrong link... It all makes sense now.

Ok, at least none of us are nuts..

This was my comment to your Sibeleus story.

"And shall we assume that Earl Gray looks the other way when corporate PACs write checks for the Republican Party? Or does he also say..."another scandal on the way?"... lol"

I did read the Sibeleus link and all it was about
was Sibeleus asking corporations to help anti up as a public service to educate the public about how to sign up for insurance which all must have at the beginning of 2014.. The open enrollment period will range from October to March 2015, and it will be a boon for media outlets... A PSA with "sponsored by the good folks as _________" is all this what you call a scandal, is about.

Specifically I was teasing you because the "Republican" who thought it this was such an outrage was simply a numbskull complaining that this government action was going to make him look really stupid because he was one of those dummies who voted against the Mitt Romney Republican model of health-care that became known as Obamacare. "If they find out how good this bill really is, I'm toast" he was saying...

You called it a scandal which is funny, because that is fitting. Anytime a Republican gets called out on the carpet, you call it a scandal. I'll continue labeling it as truth. If a corporate sponsor wants a name attached to "truth", more power to them.... I don't see any reason they shouldn't be allowed to say: "This really great bill is coming your way, and we are there to help you..." unless of course, you are opposed to free-enterprise.

As to the livid AP journalists... isn't everyone who has to defend themselves against an accusation of which they are guilty always at first livid to deflect all blame away from them?

They were guilty of leaking to Al Qaida. You sanction that?

Tue, May 14, 2013 1:35pm
Yes Earl. I was upset at our privacy being ursuped by Dick Cheney. Here is the difference. It appears this time you didn't read a link above.

In 2007 a bill to limit this very action, tapping journalists, was up for a vote in Congress. Darrell Issa, was one of twenty-one House members who voted against it. It overwhelmingly sailed through the House. It died in the Senate due to there not being 60 votes sufficient to get it onto the floor. Senator Patrick Leahy, said "Republicans killed this bill."

And irony of ironies, then Senator Obama, was in favor of its passage...

Again, no scandal for Republicans. Just a dirty face that needs wiping.

Tue, May 14, 2013 2:42pm
Let's face it. Obama is a sleazy opportunist who spent his whole career running for the next office, and a Daley Machine hack (his wife is second-generation Daley Machine). The Democratic Party allied itself with Daley in the same way the US allies itself with right-wing dictators. The only reason Obama got elected is the media was so enraptured with the idea of a "historic" first Black president (even though he is really multi-racial, grew up in a White household, and is descended from slave owners, not slaves) that they gave the guy a free pass, did not do anything like due diligence, and turned on Hillary. So, now we are stuck with him.

Tue, May 14, 2013 2:47pm
There it is... That's what I'm looking for.. ha ha ha... this gets even better ... CNN was given an e-mail that shows ABC's e-mail was a set up by Republicans. Here is CNN's copy of the email. (Viewer Beware... this is the same CNN that messed up the Boston Bomber story and had two correspondants talking by satelitte to each other while only 6 feet apart in the same Arizona parking lot last week...)

But that said, here...


The actual e-mail from then-Deputy National Security Adviser for Strategic Communications Ben Rhodes appears to show that whomever leaked it did so in a way that made it appear that the White House was primarily concerned with the State Department's desire to remove references and warnings about specific terrorist groups so as to not bring criticism to the department...

Obviously Karl of ABC was the set-up fool...

Again, we see the Republican making something out of nothing. It's the end of the world. Obama is going to get impeached. We must change our government. This is outrageous. This is the end of America. This is scandalous. This is the end of America....

Everyone who jumped on this as being a great controversy, must now wipe off the egg...

As said here in the very beginning.,.. Where there is no fire, Republicans have to supply the "gas"... lol..

How low will the party, once resurrected by Ronald Reagan, sink before like a horse with broken leg, someone puts it out of its misery???

Everyone who thought this was going to be a controversy is now, looking very stupid.

Tue, May 14, 2013 2:53pm
Just for fun... a blast from the past....

"Did you read the link I posted from ABC News?
Al-Qaida and all references to terrorism were removed and the YouTube video story was inserted...The 5 previous attacks in Benghazi (including the British Ambassador) were also scrubbed. How can you not see this scandal? Too loyal to Obama or fear of losing Hillary in 2016?" -- One of our commentators here...

Ahem. "There is a ton of wrong information getting out into the public domain from Congress and people who are not particularly informed. Insofar as we have firmed up assessments that don’t compromise intel or the investigation, we need to have the capability to correct the record, as there are significant policy and messaging ramifications that would flow from a hardened mis-impression"

Still thinking we should impeach the President? Lol.

Tue, May 14, 2013 3:02pm
Ahem... Here is the real timeline in regards to why we have this horrendous hearing about Benghazi now, from someone (Hicks) who we never heard of until now....

December 12, 2012: Kentucky: Hillary Clinton would beat Paul, Rubio in 2016

January 10, 2013: Clinton could be unstoppable if she runs in 2016

January 17, 2013: Clinton could beat Bush and Rubio in Florida in 2016

January 31, 2013: Clinton could win Texas in 2016

February 8, 2013: Clinton potentially competitive in Alaska

February 14, 2013: Clinton tied or ahead against GOP candidates in Louisiana

February 28, 2013: Clinton would beat Walker, Ryan in Wisconsin in 2016

March 21, 2013: Clinton's popularity soars in Florida while Rubio stumbles

April 11, 2013: Clinton and Paul are neck and neck in Kentucky

April 25, 2013: Clinton would be dominant in New Hampshire in 2016

May 8, 2013: Republicans decide it's time to find out just how responsible Hillary Clinton is for the deaths of four Americans in Benghazi

Its all politics. It's only about politics. At least with the best president in our lifetime now in office, we have someone genuinely concerned about Middle Class American people.

Tue, May 14, 2013 8:08pm
The tyranny Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Matt Drudge, Glenn Beck, the late great Andrew Breitbart, Rick Jensen, Andy Dean, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, and good ole Mr. Pizza have been warning you about is now on full display! How much longer will Kavips, Mark Rice, Bill Smith, Shawn, Teatime, Glass-Half-Full, and Mike from Delaware remain in denial?

Tue, May 14, 2013 10:23pm
kavips: Yes, I do think impeachment is a possibility for this president, and yes, I believe he deserves to be impeached and a large portion of his administration placed in prison for quite some time.

I also fear for what that would do to our country...this president has divided us more than I have ever seen in my lifetime. If impeachment does happen, this country will fall into chaos..

Wed, May 15, 2013 12:33am
Ha! Both of you missed the headlines tonight on all leading news channels, all leading off with this topic: Is this the end of the Republican Party?... Citing all three horendous mistakes caused by Republicans this week as the biggest joke in Washington. I only caught the tail-end of Allan's Politico bit, but I think from the last two sentences, that was also the topic on that bit of last night's news....

The problem with Republicans focusing on these three single issues, is that they are ignoring a lot of other huge problems. For one, since I can remember, they have complained the Senate has never passed a budget. They did this year and it sits in a House committee... Why? The Republicans don't want to bring it out until the debt ceiling again becomes a crisis; that way, they have leverage... So, as always, we have Republicans gumming up what works in America and focused on ridiculous notions affecting no one...

The sooner Republicans are eradicated, the better. And thinking impeachment is an option? Hilarious. Especially when it's the best president we've ever had in our lifetime... :)

Wed, May 15, 2013 8:06am
"Especially when it's the best president we've ever had in our lifetime... :) "

You write very well, Kavips, for somebody under 13 years old.

All you people are doing is demonstrating how the parliamentary system is superior to the current US temp dictator system and how it's time to scrap the constitution of 1787 (just as the articles of confederation were scrapped). The constitution is obsolete and was drafted by lousy lawyers who left it filled with ambiguities and loopholes.

Wed, May 15, 2013 8:35am
Earl. We can't go impeaching everyone you don't like. We have a government to run.... Problem is you. You don't like him. Fix that first, and the country gets fixed second...

You probably would have said the same of FDR if you'd lived back then... Earl. Always on the wrong side of history.

And Billsmith? You got a problem with human beings under 13 years old? Same thing I just told Earl goes for you too!

Wed, May 15, 2013 8:37am
and there's that..."you people" thing.. :)

Wed, May 15, 2013 9:31am
kavips: Any reasonable person who thinks Obama is "the best president we've ever had in our lifetime" has to be 13 or under for his lifetime not to include the Clinton administration.

Obama - the first affirmative-action president: He has demonstrated that he is "the world's worst poker player;" he can't negotiate; he can't manage; he can't play the political game - a real triple threat. In ineptness, he ranks with Jack Kennedy, lacking the benefit of posthumous canonization. Both spoke well and people got juiced over a historic "first." Obama also ranks with Kennedy in lacking backbone, although Jack had the benefit of lots of steroids and painkillers.

And we shouldn't have to impeach people who show they can't get the job done. If we had a parliamentary system, Obama would lose a confidence vote and be gone right away. No need for four years of incessant media chatter about polls and political speculation.

Wed, May 15, 2013 9:39am
kavips: You and your many friends at DelLib may think Obama is the best president ever, but I doubt most rational Democrats think he's the greatest prez in US history. I am not the president's biggest fan, but that is not why I believe the man should be impeached.

I doubt Nixon or his loyalists thought he would be impeached either...he was a Republican and I would have fully supported his impeachment as well.

Wed, May 15, 2013 10:09am
"The tyranny Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Matt Drudge, Glenn Beck, the late great Andrew Breitbart, Rick Jensen, Andy Dean, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, and good ole Mr. Pizza have been warning you about is now on full display!" -- mrpizza
Yup, I'll remain in denial. Because, from my perspective, Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, et al, are the tyranous ones. You know, Rush Limbaugh, the thrice-divorced drug addict who likes to preach about family values. Hello, hypocrite!

"...this president has divided us more than I have ever seen in my lifetime" - EarlGrey
Apparently you were asleep for the GWB years? Did you miss how divided the country became, starting with the 2000 debacle of an election, and then again during the 2004 election? Sure, Obama hasn't helped the situation. But this country has been seriously divided for longer than you can blame Obama for.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no kavips... I'm no Obama apologist. I didn't vote for him either election (Green Party both times, thank you). Obama has his problems. That's the beauty of being an independent among partisans... I can see that both sides are usually wrong, rather than constantly blaming the sitde I don't agree with. I may be anti-Tea Party, but I'm certainly no Democrat.

Wed, May 15, 2013 10:19am
Oops! I was so excited. Thanks, Mr Pizza, for including me in such esteemed company.

Wed, May 15, 2013 12:27pm
"Apparently you were asleep for the GWB years? Did you miss how divided the country became, starting with the 2000 debacle of an election, and then again during the 2004 election? Sure, Obama hasn't helped the situation. But this country has been seriously divided for longer than you can blame Obama for."~Shawn

I was wide awake for the GWB years and agree this nation was divided during that period of time, BUT this president has intentionally used class-warfare to weaken Republicans and build his base in order to win elections. It worked to win the elections, but now our country has effectively been split in two.

Wed, May 15, 2013 1:00pm
Earl: You mean the country wasn't split before? Where have you been? It's always been split - often in more than two.

In any case, you ignore the "splitting" being done by the tea people and religious right on behalf of the oil barons, gun industry, and other one percent interests pulling their strings. Look to the beams in your own eyes.

Wed, May 15, 2013 2:42pm
bill: I just said in my last post (right above yours) our country was already divided, but this administration is doing it on purpose!

No beams here, eyes wide open, and paying attention.

Wed, May 15, 2013 3:03pm
Earl: With all due respect, but I think the case can equally be made that tea party-religious right is doing it on purpose.

All any of us can do is guess at other people's motives for anything.

My guess is Obama's inept, incompetent, and unqualified for the job he holds. This happens a lot with beneficiaries of affirmative action. The guy has done nothing in his career except run for an office higher than the one he holds.

Nixon was a control freak and when stuff happened in his administration, it was a safe bet he was in it up to his teeth. Obama is clueless and out of it. We have bureaucrats without clear direction and without supervision. This is a guy in over his head.

And we can thank the media for it. SNL nailed perfectly how the media were giving Obama kid-glove treatment and a free pass during the 2008 campaign.

Both parties are probably afraid to impeach "the Black guy." Probably having nightmares of race riots. Just as well. LBJ saved Kennedy's "legacy," which he was too incompetent to get passed. But Biden ain't no LBJ. Impeach and remove both of them, and Boehner takes over.

If Obama had any integrity - which I doubt - is to have Biden resign and appoint Hillary. Then resign himself.

Wed, May 15, 2013 6:36pm
And then what happens when Hillary faints at inauguration and again hits her head?

Who do we get then? Hillary Clinton's history will call her the one-minute president.

For all the hype and popularity Hillary is given today, there is little likelihood she could match the efforts of the best president in our lifetime serving now. Although I would expect Earl Grey and Mr. Pizza and Jim H. to challenge the assertion Obama is the best president in our lifetimes, I'm surprised BillS and Shawn and others here have lost their objectivity. When i call Mr. Obama that, it does not come lightly. Although in honesty, I do spread it around a lot because when Hhistorians trace back looking for when his talents were contemporaneously realized, I want to be up there near the front... lol.

Bill Clinton HAD been the best president in our lifetimes up to Obama. When I say that line, "Best president in our lifetime," it is not some partisan phrase tossed out each election cycle. It is a judicious statement - analyzed over a long time - and stacked against the records of the past presidents. Obviously Washington, Lincoln, TR and FDR, Truman are not in our lifetimes... My line starts with Eisenhower...(guessing from MFD) Now before we begin, we have to look at how history will see these men. Not as we did during our contemporaneous times with them. As you know, in politics there is always dichotomy. What one side may see as good, the other sees as a step back. So to make a judgment one has to see how it plays out over time... And as with Washington, Lincoln, TR, and FDR, something really great has to happen to make one's term be considered memorable. As one who is not considered great, Calvin Coolidge, could be hailed and often is as one of the best presidents ever, ...strictly by those who believe a government should have its hands off of all matters. And using that criteria, he would be. For he did; he scaled back government more than any other president. But the rest of us, not sharing that sentiment, would not see a president who did nothing, rarely made an appearance, and let things go as they naturally were bound, as being that good. So to be rated, we have to look at the one or two really great things they accomplished; changes that are still in place today... So here is the list, and it is a working document, and I hope, actually look forward to having other people continue to add on things I forgot, or didn't think worthy and that others comment upon whether or not they warrant being included on this list...

Eisenhower-- Interstate Highway System; The Cold War; Modern Military Expansion

Kennedy-- Cuban Missile Crises; America as the World's Moral Leader, Desegregation

Johnson-- Vietnam. Civil Rights Act. Medicare

Nixon-- China, Revenue-Sharing

Ford-- Arab Oil Embargo

Carter-- Iran Hostages, Egypt-Israel Peace Accord

Reagan-- Gorbachev, Tax Cuts for Growth, Fired the ATC's

Bush I-- Soviet Collapse, loose nukes, China Modernization, Unification of Germany, Gulf War, raised Taxes because it was necessary.

Clinton-- Raised Taxes, Greatest Economic Expansion, War in Bosnia, Budget Surplus, Internet

Bush II-- Cut Taxes, 9/11, First American War of Aggression, Iraq Quagmire, Economic Downturn, TARP.

Obama-- Health Care Reform; Stimulus Package; Saved Auto Industry; Wall Street Reform; Ended Iraq war; Will end Afghanistan; Killed Osama bin Laden; Recapitalized banks; Boosted Fuel Efficiency; Stepped up America's interests in Asia; Economic recovery from the worst recession since the Great Depression....

(And he did all this with a vindictive opposition whose Senate head stated that his one prime goal was to "f" this president up in anyway he could)..

Against that - he won a second term becoming the first president to win over 51% of the vote twice since Eisenhower.

That is why I think Americans in the future will look back and call Obama the best president of our lifetimes. Their lives will be very different in the future from what they would have been had either McCain or Romney taken the reins. When you look at the comparisons made above, I would say only Franklin D Roosevelt has done so much, and he had 4 terms....

That is why when anyone including BillS starts discussing about how Obama doesn't have leadership skills, I'm shaking my head, wondering how they could be so blind. Leadership is getting hard things done through other people. There is no other definition.

If accomplishing what Obama did was easy, a lot more would have been done on a lot of other presidents' watches. In that regard, he, like Lincoln and FDR, couldn't waste time with analysis but had to act quickly. But, in each of these cases, as Romney made very clear on the UAW Auto Deal, there are two sides being argued before him by very smart men, and both have a lot of evidence to bolster their cause. The miracle lies that in each and all of these cases, Obama chose the right one....

When each of us dies, the thought no doubt will cross our minds: what did we accomplish while we were here? What difference did we make with our limited time on this planet? Did we just go through the motions, or did we leave something concrete and durable behind? Using those criteria, in the end, it is results that matter. Things left standing after we're gone, are what will define us to those who come after...

I ask your input. Look it over and then defend why you think Obama should NOT be considered the best president of our lives...

I've read the accounts. People really didn't appreciate Lincoln. Then he died. People really didn't appreciate FDR, till after he died. Listening to some of you, I guess the same will hold for Obama. As for this smart cookie, I'm not waiting till it's too late....

Wed, May 15, 2013 7:29pm
kavips: Apparently the media aren't the only ones giving Obama a free pass because of his "race." (Actually, one of his races.) Affirmative action lowers the bar.

Health care reform? A mess. He took single-payer "off the table" before he even started.

Killed Osama Bin Laden? This guy is supposedly a constitutional lawyer, who orders mafia-style hits. First on Obama. Then on god knows how many with his drone attacks, including those on US citizens.

The world's biggest dispenser of corporate welfare.

Unable to work effectively with congress. Not surprising. He spent so little time there when he supposedly was a member of it.

And now he's channeling Nixon. Or channeling Michael Scott.
Hard to say which.

But you think it's so wonderful to have an "historic first Black president" so let's kiss his tuchus and call him brilliant.

He promised to close down Guantanamo. He promised a transparent administration.

He sold out the progressive base which got him the nomination in the first place.

He's a typical Chicago machine flunky ward heeler in a nice suit who knows how to work a crowd. He learned that from the Rev. Wright and Obama paid the guy back by throwing him under a bus.

Maybe living in Chicago, he's been channeling Al Capone. That explains all the hits.

Notice every one of those big city race card mayors has turned out to be corrupt. Obama plays on bigger stage but he's no different, it turns out.

I wonder if Obama has already arranged a pardon for himself, like Nixon did.

Wed, May 15, 2013 8:19pm
Except for EarlGrey and Allan Loudell, you're ALL a bunch of idiots!

Wed, May 15, 2013 9:55pm
Shawn: Just remember one important piece of wisdom. If you stand in the middle of the road, you'll eventually get run over.

Wed, May 15, 2013 9:56pm
Apparently you failed to make any comparison with other presidents. You totally ignored that he rocks when compared with them.

You are the Eugene Debs of 2013. Even Roosevelt would not be good enough for you...

I'm surprised that unlike your usual self, you now seem to have no grasp of facts. Single payer was dropped because it would jam the entire bill's passage. If you wanted single payer, you should have worked the Republicans over to get it. As is, the Affordable Health Care Act puts people back in control of their health choices, not insurance companies. You probably can't remember that far back, but that is huge. Apparently you would throw it all away, and go back to letting insurance companies do all those horrible things they did, just because you didn't get single payer... Wisdom is sometimes getting the best deal you can. Were the president of your choice in power, we'd still have no single payer, no Obamacare, not even Romney care. We'd have "Give me all your money care".. My, my, my How swift peoples memories fade.

Killed Osama Bin Laden?... His staff advised him against it. He overrode them. How swift people's memories fade.

Dispenser of Corporate Welfare? It was placed in the Stimulus and TARP to get the necessary Republican votes. Without it, neither would have passed. Was it a bribe? Perhaps. I think I called it as such myself back then, but it worked. We passed the bills. Today we are out of the recession, our stock market is at record levels because of the very confidence that with Republicans now pinned down to the House, we can get our nation moving again. Our nation's economic return was balanced on the back of corporations and banks. As they got better they pulled the rest of the economy along for the ride. Was it the best? Would it have been different if Republicans had never existed.. Perhaps. You seem to forget, we don't live in 'perhaps'. We live in a "real" world. Bottom line, No recession. Why? Obama.

Now you are hallucinating. Can't work with Congress? Did you forget "I have only one goal, and that is to make Obama a one-term president" I even reminded you above. It appears you are becoming extremely forgetful; that, or don't know what you are talking about. If there were zero Republicans, everybody would get along with Congress fine, no matter who the other party was. Let's see your favorite sports team play with half its players working for the other side... yet still, Obama got more done than most other presidents do in 8 years.

I'm calling it that history will agree that he is the best president in our lifetimes, and your disagreement is actually proving it even more true.

And you make a big error in your assumption that his being black has to do with anything. He rocks like Michael Jordan rocked. Because he wins with miracle shots that go in.

Wed, May 15, 2013 9:57pm
And Mr. Pizza... You're having a bad day. Go back and count the air bubbles on your pizza.

Thu, May 16, 2013 11:52am
Wow, mrpizza... way to make an informed, constructive contribution to the discussion. "You're all a bunch of idiots." So you belong to the same school of argument and discussion as my 7 year old son. Now THAT's something to be proud of. And really doesn't help us bring over to your way of thinking.

And let's see... you've already said that EVERY democrat is wrong, all the time. Now standing in the middle of the road gets you run over. So the only way to be right, is to be on the right. EVERY single topic, ever, anywhere, any time, Republicans and conservatives have the right answer. Must be nice to be so sure you have all the answers. A wise man knows he doesn't know everything.

Thu, May 16, 2013 12:30pm
MrPizza says: "Except for EarlGrey and Allan Loudell, you're ALL a bunch of idiots!"

Allan Loudell: When an obvious idiot (and nut) says you're not an idiot, you should get really worried. You, too, Earl.

Thu, May 16, 2013 12:43pm
Could we please stop this ridiculous thread of nonsense and get back to the topic of discussion...our own government decided it was OK to spy on the Associated Press and you guys are debating who's an idiot? This spying was intimidation from the highest level...letting journalists and any brave whistleblowers know that they are being watched...how likely are we to have another "Deepthroat" if that person knows he/she will be found?

Thu, May 16, 2013 3:02pm
Well done Earl Grey... but just speaking strictly for myself, it was funny, and I totally enjoyed the diversion... :) (Yes, at some point I will probably do it again.)

But Earl is right...

Thu, May 16, 2013 9:08pm
Shawn: No, we right-wing nut-jobs don't have all the answers. We just stand for something, unlike the left who stands for nothing.

Fri, May 17, 2013 12:00am
Mr. Pizza ... you are wrong... You got it completely backwards... The right stands for nothing... always has, always will. Like the brakes of a car their only function is to sit idly by, until they are needed to slow things down.

That is why they don't do anything... They are waiting for the elements of change to move first....

Here is how they work.

We need to raise taxes, we have deficit.... No
We need to legalize gay marriage........... No
We need to improve America's healthcare.... No
We need to improve the economy and hire.... No
We need to stop banks from stealing money.. No
We need to ensure businesses play fair..... No
We need to help Main Street, not Wall Street No
We need to cut the deficit.................. No
We need to balance the budget............... No
We need to make sure was is the last option. No
We need to make sure that women are citizens No
We need to do something to fix immigration.. No
We need to stop CO2 emissions...............No
We need lower gas prices.....................No
We need lower food prices....................No
We need to help Hurricane Sandy victims..... No
We need better education.................... No
We need economic improvement................ No

So Mr. Pizza. Evidence points contrary to your supposition... Conservatives are dead weight. sort of like the body in the back of the Russian Mafia's car....

Fri, May 17, 2013 12:04am
Anyways, here we are at the end of the week.

No Benghazi Controversy. Completely shot down by the White House

No IRS Controversy... Completely shot down by the White House

No AP controversy.... Completely shot down by the White House.

It was all political.. as was said here Monday morning...
There was no there, there...

Have we ever had a president this good? Seriously, 4 days. Nothing left... I told you he was the best president in our lifetimes...

Fri, May 17, 2013 4:29am
kavips: You mean COVERED UP by the White House!

Fri, May 17, 2013 7:31am
kavips and pizza: You two are not opposites, you are twins - like love and hate. Shot down? Covered up? You each are living in your own alternate universes, seeing what you want to see, noticing what you want to notice, remembering what you want to remember.

We are stuck with an incompetent Daley Machine hack. One says he can do no wrong; one says he can do no right. Mostly he does nothing or fumbles. Supporting Obama because (supposedly) he is Black is as racist as opposing him because (supposedly) he is Black.

Fri, May 17, 2013 1:42pm
kavips: All you have to do is read the CBS News stories right here on the WDEL frontpage to know that none of those scandals have gone away (4 stories as of right now). The lies are unraveling and we now know that Benghazi, the AP story, and the IRS story were all suppressed till after the elections. Check out the Drudge Report front banners.

I heard someone tie these three stories together as IntimOgate...since all three stories have shown Big Government intimidating those who dare to go against them in any way, shape, or form.

Mon, May 20, 2013 2:59am
Earl Gray. Just my point. CBS? Who listens to them? No one I know. ABC? The same. CNN? No one important cares what they say anymore. This is not 1979. None of those matter.

The real news is on aggregators.. The importance of a story moves up or down based on how relevant it is... If one person watches Breitbart, and Breitbart leads with a Benghazi story, that person is going to think Breitbart is important. But when the world uses Google, and one can find zero mention of Benghazi on their news feed, the same with Yahoo, Reuters, BBC, Guardian, Daily News, it is not important, no matter how a news anchor feels it will help his career if he lead off with it?

Same with the IRS. Same with the AP story. And there is no "there" in any of these scandals. You have just lazy reporters, all in the same room, vying for more attention than the person standing 3 feet beside them... Bottom line, is, no one cares, as I have said repeatedly here. The reason they don't care is because they can see through the mechanizations and understand that all the noise is about trying to get viewers to their channel. There are plenty of scandals. It is none of these three, and all of them are in the Republican Party.

Here are the real scandals that if you didn't listen to Breitbart, you would know...

Why were Karl Rove and Crossroads approved of non-tax status? Karl Rove's meltdown on election night proved he was strictly an operative, not a position advocacy. His organization should be punished and all the donors made public.

Why did the Republicans themselves filibuster and kill the law that Democrats passed that would have protected the AP and all journalists from being investigated without the signed approval of the Attorney General himself?

The head of AP calls the journalist's being investigated UNCONSTITUTIONAL... Uh.. yet it is so totally legal. It is sanctioned in the Patriot Act. Where was AP's outrage then? You know who was outraged? Democrats. They passed a law to prevent it and had enough votes to pass it, but you know who filibustered it? Republicans. So ... of course it is unconstitutional.. Absolutely. But solely because of Republican interference could it be done; it is not illegal, thanks to the short sightedness from morally short-statured people otherwise known as "Issafists", after short statured Darrell Issa.

The investigators in the IRS had a job to do. Their job was to make sure that political organizations did not use the non-political tax-exempt status to violate election law. If you remember there was a considerable influx of applications following Citizens United. For that allowed a political organization to hide its donors if they were one of these tax exempt entities. The Tea Party doesn't have money. It consists of poor hicks. All its financing comes from Billionaires who couldn't care less about the tea party. They just hated the middle-class and wanted to kick it in the teeth some more..

They sure did too, thanks to these loose-knit fake organization requesting tax-exempt status. Anyone of these with the name Tea Party, Constitution, 9/12, was nothing but a front to laundry money previously prohibited, into a campaign. There was nothing wrong with what the IRS did. The IRS too wasdoing its job as required by law. The only thing the IRS actually did that was wrong, was approve of most of them... That was actually a crime the approval they gave to Karl Rove and Crossroads.

And Earl.. The Drudge Report stopped being relevant after Clinton left office. I didn't think any dinosaurs still read it. I know no staffer on the hill does. Thanks for letting me know dinosaurs aren't extinct after all...

And Bill.. Pizza and I are twins... congratulations for figuring that out... :)

That is actually more of a scandal than any of these three fake ones the Republicans rolled out last week... If four people are aghast that Pizza and I are twins, that is twice more than the number of those who cared about Benghazi...

Mon, May 20, 2013 1:39pm
kavips: The "real scandals" you listed above are only considered real on sites like DailyKos, DelLib or some Soros-funded blog/news site (liberal bubbles of reality)...
btw, most average Americans still get their "news" from the Old news media vs the New media.

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