European indignation over NSA surveillance scandal (But please share intel with us!)
The battle lines seem to have hardened among U.S. politicians:
"Establishment" senators and representatives - whether Republicans or Democrats - defend the massive surveillance; civil libertarians of all stripes decry such surveillance.
But, many Europeans are having a conniption. The chief British diplomat tried to assure Parliamentarians that the surveillance programs didn't encroach on British Privacy laws. German and European Union officials formally objected to any NSA surveillance targeting suspicious foreign communications through U.S. providers.
This commentary from the German Justice Minister in Der SPIEGEL is typical...
Remember the Stasi, the East German secret police? Some in Germany and elsewhere are drawing parallels. See this treatment of the story from RT, actually the first Russian 24/7 English-language channel...
The terrorists have won. When it gets to the point that the government violates our civil liberties in the name of stopping terrorism, then the terrorists have indeed prevailed.
Wed, Jun 12, 2013 3:10pm
Again, this is not new news. All have known everything was being recorded, or should have known...
It got too big and had to be pulled. Let's take Allan for example. All the calls he makes (Cairo even, lol). Then collect all his e-mails in one day. Then collect his comments on this blog, and then collect the comments on all our blogs.. Remember everything is pulled and stored because there just isn't enough manpower to sift through what is relevant and what is not. Okay. So we've collected everything off Allan for one whole day. 24 hours... Now, we spy on him. We replay the phone conversations. We have to listen to them in real time, so while on hold.. we are on hold as well. My guess is that Allan spends the Al Mascitti show mostly on the phone, and the Rick Jensen show mostly on the phone. Let's shorten it to two hours each show, or 4 hours daily total. Then there are the e-mails. All his e-mails are listed. To read them all? Probably an hour during Al Mascitti and an hour during Rick Jensen. We are up to six hours a day now. Then there is this blog. When full, it takes roughly 30 minutes for me to go top to bottom, because one can't just read only what Allan says, but they must read how each of us responds, to understand what Allan says. We are at 6 1/2 hours. Then we have to go over his noon hour and his 3-hour evening slot. That will have to be done in live time... We are at 10 1/2 hours of work, every day 5 days a week, just to listen to Allan Loudell through his day...
Now I never realized it until now, but those calls to Egypt, and back, of course, are flagged... Which means that we, here, because of this blog, have also been flagged. Not to would be a failure of duty. (We know Allan is on the up and up, but an impartial listener paid for by the NSA in India, would not. If someone were talking to Bin Laden's relatives and those relatives were also not investigated, it would be a breech of duty. So all those clicks on your phone and hung up emails, all have their reason. Oh no! Now someone has to listen to all of you in real time!... got to hire 10 more people! But seriously, this got too big to handle. Creating situations like this: Ok, let's go back two years on Allan. Ummm. which server is it on. Not in San Fran, let's check Washington. Rats. Where did that file go, ah... here it is, in West Virginia... Oh no, 404, File not Found.
Finding something in every thing America has ever digitally done, is like searching for a needle in haystack, even with the highest-powered software. Time to make PRISM public, so those we have to watch, try other communicative methods, less mainstream and more easily monitored in real time... (I would be curious if Snowden was even a real person who was around 9 years ago. That theory is easily checkable btw.)
Wed, Jun 12, 2013 8:17pm
A lot has happened since 7:56 A.M. when this blog was posted, in particular, breaking news about Ed Snowden having stolen documents and is now turning them over to the Chinese. Obviously, my post from a couple of days ago about Snowden saving the Republic was erroneous, but based on the best information I had at the time. Unquestionably, Ed Snowden is a traitor and should be dealt with severely, up to and including the death penalty.
Of course, if we deal harshly with Mr. Snowden, we'll also need to reopen the case of Bill Clinton and his selling us out to the Chinese via Loral Corporation. But then, both he and Obama are coated with teflon, so fat chance of that ever happening.
Where's Nixon when you really need him?
Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:49am
What's your source about Snowden turning over stolen documents to the Chinese? I can't find this story.
The SOUTH CHINA MORNING POST out of Hong Kong did report Snowden's claim that the United States has been hacking into Chinese and Hong Kong computers since 2009 - which, while it may have undercut President Obama's ability to complain to the Chinese about Chinese cyberhacking into U.S. systems - is not exactly the same allegation.
Former U.S. Congressman Ron Paul has expressed the fear that the U.S. government may try to assassinate Snowden - perhaps through the use of a drone.
That's one reason why Snowden might actually be relatively safer in Hong Kong than, say, in some sub-Saharan African country. Difficult to imagine the Obama Administration would risk the firestorm which would result from a drone attack on Chinese soil!
Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:31am
I too would like your source, mrpizza...I have heard speculation that Snowden may "bargain" with the Chinese to receive aslyum...but have not heard/read any reports that he himself has said he would do this. Both Iceland and Russia have offered asylum as well.
Russia and China must love this story as it embarrasses both the US and Obama.
Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:38am
After days of silence, the official Chinese press is now having a "field day" with this story.
The English-language CHINA DAILY carried a big cartoon of a shadowed Statue of Liberty, grasping a tape recorder and a microphone in place of a tablet and a torch.
The pro-PRC Takungpao newspaper in Hong Kong proclaimed:
"If the U.S. is the true defender of democracy, human rights, and freedom like it always described itself... President Obama should sincerely apologize to the people from other countries whose privacy was violated."
From the Chinese Communist Party-run, GLOBAL TIMES:
"Before Snowden is silenced, Washington owes China an explanation of whether the U.S. as an Internet superpower abused its power over our vital interests..."
Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:42pm
Snowden did an interview with the South China Morning Post yesterday afternoon. Here's the link:
Add your comment: Attention: In an attempt to promote a level of civility and personal
responsibility in blog discussions, we now require you to be a member of
the WDEL Members Only Group in order to post a comment. Your Members
Only Group username and password are required to process your post.
You can join the WDEL Members Only Group for free by clicking here.
If you are already a member but have forgotten your username or password, please
Please register your post with your WDEL Members Only Group username and password below.