WDEL Blog: Allan Loudell

4th of July / early July Forum

I'll be gone for a few days, so I'm leaving this for you to comment on whichever stories / issues / topics grab your interest.

You know the drill. Double & triple-check your comments for any errors before posting.

All the best!

--- As I post this blog, word that the Egyptian military has just ousted Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi and tossed the Islamist constitution...

Posted at 2:36pm on July 3, 2013 by Allan Loudell

<- Back to all Allan Loudell posts

Comments on this post:

Wed, Jul 3, 2013 5:02pm
All he did was love me': Police shoot and kill Rottweiler in the street when the dog runs over to owner being arrested for obstruction of justice

Leon Rosby was walking his dog in Hawthorne, California Sunday evening when he started filming a police scene. He put his 3-year-old dog in a parked car with the windows rolled down when officers came over to arrest him. The dog escaped and ran over to his master, prompting an officer to fire several shots, killing the animal

Heartbreaking moment cops shot and killed dog who leapt at officers when owner was being arrested for FILMING them

* Leon Rosby, 52, was walking his dog and video-tapping a police scene when he was arrested for obstruction of justice
* He locked his dog in the car with the windows rolled down, and while being arrested the dog escaped
* A police officer shot the dog when it ran over to his owner
* Rosby is now in the process of filing a suit against the police department for killing his dog

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2353347/Police-shoot-kill-Rottweiler-street-dog-runs-owner-arrested-obstruction-justice.html#ixzz2Y1BzG2L1
Pigs are corrupt and brutal. They don't like it when citizens take videos of them. They might decide to beat up somebody who's down on the ground, and then they don't get to lie about it in court later.

Pigs lie.

Pigs also like to shoot people's dogs, just because they think they can.

Maybe the NRA is right. We do need guns to protect ourselves and our dogs from viscous gestapo pigs.

Free Mumia.
Death to pigs.

Wed, Jul 3, 2013 6:46pm
Looks like Obama's buddies in Egypt as well as other parts of the world are getting exposed for the frauds they are and getting systematically canned.

In just another 17 months, American voters will be systematically canning his buddies here too.

You can't live a lie forever.

Wed, Jul 3, 2013 7:34pm
"You can't live a lie forever."

But that doesn't stop you from trying.

Mike from Delaware
Thu, Jul 4, 2013 10:03am
Billsmith: I watched the video. Apparently, its a "sport" in California to video the police while they're in the middle of an incident. There were at least two others videoing the cops at work [the YouTube poster and that other guy on the sidewalk with a cellphone camera], besides the guy with the dog, at that house where there were at least 4 cop cars pulled in front.

So something big must have been going down. Note the other videographers stayed at a distance and the cops ignored them. The guy with the dog actually crossed the street and went closer and then continued to film the two cops who were going away from him and he started down the sidewalk towards them filming them. It seems to my eye that this guy was looking for a confrontation. Then they finally turned and started towards him. ONLY then did he turn and head back to his car and put the dog in the car. He also knew others were filming, maybe this was a set up by him and someone else to "film the cops doing something bad".

After putting the dog in the car, he should have gotten in to his car and without starting the engine, to have his discussion with the cops, but instead he decided to confront them on the street [again it looks like a set up]. We can't hear what's being said, so we have no idea what he said to the cops or they said to him. We see them talk for a second and then they cuffed him and started to take him to one of THEIR cars. After a moment or two, the dog finally jumped out and went to defend his master.

The cops have no way of knowing what that dog was going to do. He wasn't coming over in a playful jaunt tail wagging, he was charging implying, I'm going to attack you people, because you're hurting my master.

If you were one of those cops with a large dog charging you, what would you have done at that moment with only a second before some large dog bit you? I'd have have shot him.

The other thing to consider here is the police were on a case across the street where four cop cars were needed. Was it a drug bust, or some other kind of crime where gun play could happen? If I were a cop going to such a situation, I'd not want civilians getting in the way where they could be shot, by whoever was in that house or hit by a stray bullet from the cops if they had to shoot.

For their own protection the cops need to be focused on what they're doing and having some jerk getting in the way with a camera may be putting his own life in danger, but also those cops. What the guy with the dog did was not reasonable, he crossed the line. Again, note the others filming were not bothered. So as long as you kept your distance and stayed out of harms way and the cops way, you were free to video.

It is unfortunate that the guy's dog was shot, but the owner of the dog is the one at fault, the cops were defending themselves against a large dog attacking them.

Many times the cops are wrong, but this isn't one of those times, in my opinion.

Thu, Jul 4, 2013 11:15am
Ha ha ha! That's funny Bill. Really funny.

Thu, Jul 4, 2013 11:23am
From what I'm able to ascertain from the video, the killing of the dog is understandable because it happened just too fast for the officer to be able to calculate a proper reaction.

Regardless, I think the police department should make restitution to the owner.

Thu, Jul 4, 2013 12:33pm
MikeFromDelaware: I know you are inclined to be "charitable." I also know that Christianity does not value god's other creatures on this planet and teaches they exist just to eat. Cops are supposed to be trained to "calculate a proper response" to different situations. The cop had a gun and he knew he could get away with it. The dog was probably just running to his owner ("all he ever did was love me"). If he saw his owner as being threatened, maybe the dog wanted to protect his owner. That does not justify legal force against the dog. The cop should have held still and slowly backed away. But cops have to show everybody they are tough, they are in charge. So he just shot the dog.

This is not an isolated incident. You may remember the story of the cops serving a warrant who broke a door down and then shot two dogs inside and then learned they had gotten the address wrong.

And what were the cops doing that they didn't want the public to see? Beating up some poor person like they did with Rodney King?

Christians keep quoting and eye for an eye. Justice would be for the guy who lost his dog to shoot the cop's kids, right in front of him. Let him see how it feels.

Thu, Jul 4, 2013 12:40pm
Groundhog day!

Mike from Delaware
Thu, Jul 4, 2013 2:23pm
Billsmith: in the case where the cops got the wrong home and shot the dogs, sure they should make restitution, but in this case, the man with the dog was in the wrong. He had no business sticking his nose into a police stakeout/crime scene/situation. He crossed over the line.

So I guess you're saying if you were standing in a similar situation and a large dog you don't know appears to be attacking you and you had a gun/taser/ billy club/large stick, etc, available, you'd not use them, but just stand there and allow the dog to bite you??? That is NOT a normal human reaction, in my opinion [good luck convincing folks be they cops or not to do that].

When I take walks, at parks, or my neighborhood, etc, I take a walking stick with me, not because I need a walking stick, but if a dog comes up to me and appears to NOT be friendly I hopefully can keep it at bay [especially as so many crummy dog owners allow their large dogs to run free while they sit at home, unlike responsible dog owners who keep their dog on a leach and have that animal under complete control].

I love it when a dog owner will say, my dog wouldn't hurt a flea, how does he know? Sure the dog loves him [he's his master the one who feeds him], but a stranger, especially a stranger that makes the dog think its master is being hurt will not be a loving dog to the stranger. I know a few people who've been bitten by someone else's dog in a friendly situation and the owners right there saying, oh don't worry, he's friendly, moments later the other person gets bit.

Sorry I'm with the cops on this one.

There are some lousy cops, but there are also some great cops. These folks get called into all sorts of situations where their lives are in danger. The people of the ghetto complain because they don't get the police service they desire, but when the cops do show up they hassle them and give the men/women in blue an attitude. Then they wonder why the cops aren't ecstatic about serving their black community???

I read somewhere, that in some cities, the cops now have video recorders mounted on them somewhere so when crap like this happens they also have video footage of what happened to protect themselves. Frankly I don't blame them.

I wouldn't want to be a cop to start with, but I surly wouldn't want to be a white cop who had to go into a black neighborhood, because nothing he/she will do will be right. If the bad guy gets away, they didn't really try, because its a poor black neighborhood. If they get the guy then the race card gets pulled [more often than not the perp is black]. Its a no win situation for a white cop in a minority community. Everyone there is watching and just waiting for them to make some mistake so they can summon Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to bring on a large law suit. Sounds cynical doesn't it, but that's the reality of what happens.

What would happen if all white policemen/women nationwide decided that due to this non-sense they'd no longer serve the black communities. No cops in their neighborhoods. The decent citizens in those communities would become victims. They'd be preyed upon by the violent. Yet when the cops come into their neighborhood to help them those same people are the ones running their mouths saying how bad these men/women are. Who'd want that as a career? Of course that would never happen as the cops are required to serve all neighborhoods even when their efforts are not appreciated or wanted.

What needs to happen to try to solve this problem is for more black men to become urban cops so they can patrol the black neighborhoods [can't claim racism then]. Problem is to become a cop in most cities, counties, and states, you need a clean slate in terms of a criminal record thus leaving many urban minority men out as it seems a higher percentage of black men have had run in's with the law as youth vs white men as youth.

The other problem is those black men/women who become cops in the hood, will then be labeled "oreo cookies" [black on the outside, white on the inside] or will be called "sellouts to that cracker or the honky", etc, thus probably not a great incentive for any intelligent black man to make police work his career [funny how its not racist when blacks say such things, but would be a major problem if whites said that using negative words to describe the black community] - yep the ole double standard known as Political Correctness.

If he has brains, better off going to college and getting a good job so he can move him and his family out of the hood, thus the rise of the large Middle Class Black population that we've seen in the last 30 years.

Thu, Jul 4, 2013 6:37pm
MikeFromDelaware: As you're often saying about agreeing to disagree...

You live in a world filled with hostile dogs. I never even thought of carrying a walking stick or anything else for protection from hostile dogs. It sounds like you - and those cops - assume a dog will attack. Dogs don't attack without a reason; that's something people do.

Dogs can perceive a lot that people don't and can't. Maybe the dog is picking up on your hostility. Maybe your stick provokes dogs.

And having cops come into your house and shoot your dog(s) is not something money can make up for. It sounds like you've never loved a dog.

And you make the "bad apple" argument about cops. That might be true if the "good apples" didn't condone the actions of the "bad apples." Same with the church covering for the "bad apple" pedophile priests. As the saying goes, it's not the crime, it's the cover up. The result with cops is a culture that allows, even rewards, brutality and corruption. It starts with something as innocuous as one cop not giving an off-duty cop a speeding ticket and grows from there. Same happens in the government, the military or business. Misplaced "loyalty" to the institution becomes more important than personal standards of right or wrong - until a whistle blower or a guy with a video recorder shows up. Then the organization must move against them to protect itself.

Thu, Jul 4, 2013 10:01pm
Hey, did you notice Allan's headline about Ed Snowden? He calls him a "man without a country". Well, I just realized I share in that misfortune with Mr. Snowden. I too have been a man without a country since January 20th, 2009.

Mike from Delaware
Thu, Jul 4, 2013 11:47pm
Billsmith: I've never been attacked by a dog, before or after I started using a walking stick. I've had dogs come up to me in my walks, so far never hostile. However, my wife was once attacked in our yard a couple of years ago by a large dog that was running loose. Thankfully she was gardening and had a rake so she was able to keep the dog at bay until a neighbor from down the street saw what was happening came to her rescue. He knew the dog and the dog knew him and obeyed him when he came and got him. As it turned out, it was his dog.

We have a dog we love very much, and would be very upset if our dog was shot by the cops. Granted our dog is a small dog and if he stood on his hind legs he might be able to bite a person in their kneecaps so he'd not scare too many people [they'd probably start laughing at him]. But a dog bite is a dog bite, but definitely not in the same league as a large dog attacking and biting a person].

My point is, the man who owned the dog, was out of line and did something that he shouldn't have been doing. The one cop was carrying a machine gun [obviously something big and serious was going on or about to happen]. Civilians had no reason to get in the way or to interfere with their operation. Those cops didn't need that idiot getting in the way endangering his life as well as those cops lives as they then would have to risk their lives further to protect his stupid butt. The guy was wrong and HIS actions are what set the rest of that event into motion. Had the dog not jumped out of the car the animal would still be alive today, but the fault is with the dogs' owner, not the cops, in my opinion.

So yes, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm sure this will be a court case and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson will be ranting on air about the evil cops. A jury will get to decide whether or not the cops were at fault. So I guess we'll have to leave it to them to make the final decision.

Fri, Jul 5, 2013 4:03am
MikeFromDelaware: Doing something he shouldn't have done? Recording video? You are making my case: Christianity does encourage deference to authority, which is why rulers historically have given the church such preferential treatment. Preachers tell you to do what the rulers tell you and in return, preachers get tax breaks and certain legal immunities.
I bet you even think that if cops pull you in, they really want to help you. And you don't even think of keeping silent and demanding a lawyer. Cops love people like that. Makes their jobs so easy. They just need to bust somebody, get their numbers up. It doesn't have to be the right guy.
And when cops do bust somebody, I bet you assume he must be guilty. They love people like you on juries, too.
But they hate people with video recorders.

Fri, Jul 5, 2013 6:41am
billsmith: YOU sir, are guilty!

Fri, Jul 5, 2013 8:49am
pizza/kavips: You are crazy.

Police who shot and killed dog as they arrested owner for FILMING them are pulled off the street for THEIR safety as they are bombarded with death threats

* Hawthorne police say the officers are in danger after video hit the internet
* Leon Rosby, 52, was walking his dog and video-tapping a police scene when he was arrested for obstruction of justice
* He locked his dog in the car with the windows rolled down, and while being arrested the dog escaped
* A police officer shot the dog when it ran over to his owner
* Rosby is now in the process of filing a suit against the police department for killing his dog

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2356453/Police-killed-dog-pulled-street-THEIR-safety-bombarded-death-threats.html#ixzz2YAsihTN7

Now the pigs are saying they went after this guy because his radio was too loud!

The pig shot the dog four times! Wounding the dog wasn't enough! Using his billy club wasn't enough! Using a Tazer wasn't enough! No, the brutal, blood-thirsty, corrupt pig wanted to kill.

I hope this poor man's lawyer ruins the pig's life, derails his career and takes his house, his car, his kids' college funds and every penny he ever hoped to earn, and leaves the guy working cleaning grease at McDonald's and living on the street (being harassed by cops). But if somebody does do to him what he did to that poor dog who just loved his master, I won't shed any tears.

Fri, Jul 5, 2013 8:54am
What hath Bush wrought! The spy agencies not only are tracking your emails and phone calls - and bugging foreign, supposedly friendly, governments, they are also tracking your mail. Maybe pizza helps...
US Postal Service has been tracking all mail sent within the country for more than a DECADE

* The USPS receives over 15,000 tracking requests a year
* Tracking has gone on for over 100 years
* Mail tracking was first disclosed after a Texas woman was busted for sending ricin-laced letters to US President Barack Obama, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and a Bloomberg-sponsored gun control lobby

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2356571/US-Postal-Service-tracking-mail-sent-country--just-like-NSAs-PRISM-spying.html#ixzz2YAuskcN1

Fri, Jul 5, 2013 8:58am
Here's what pigs do for fun, when they aren't busy shooting somebody's dog!
The two women suing police after they were subjected to humiliating roadside cavity search as they wore only their bikinis

* Brandy Hamilton, 26, and Alexandria Randle, 24, spoke out about their ordeal today
* The women were subjected to a roadside cavity search in Texas and are suing the DPS
* They say they were 'violated' by the invasive search and can no longer trust the police

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2356618/Pictured-The-women-suing-police-unconstitutional-roadside-cavity-search.html#ixzz2YAvuhYtz

Fri, Jul 5, 2013 9:00am
Political correctness rules:
More Americans feel that black people are more racist than whites and Hispanics. study finds
A new survey has found that more Americans see black people as racist than white people or even Hispanics.

Thirty seven percent of American adults spoken to by respected pollsters Rasmussen think that African American citizens hold racist views, as opposed to just 15 percent of white Americans.

Indeed, even the black adults the survey spoke to, 31 percent said they considered people of their own race to be racist while only 24-percent thought that white people were bigoted.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2355964/More-Americans-feel-black-people-racist-whites-Hispanics-study-finds.html#ixzz2YAwkAIHH
How do you tell someone is racist? They support affirmative action and think Obama is the greatest president in our lifetimes.

Mike from Delaware
Fri, Jul 5, 2013 9:35am
Billsmith: Thanks for the link about racism. Its about time someone says it. Racism isn't an white only disease, it affects all groups, because its part of the human condition [a nice way to say our human sinful nature -oops can't say anything like that in our PC world either]. I'm sure Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson will have plenty to say about that survey.

Doing what he shouldn't been doing? YES, the Answer again, was that he got into their crime scene, not staying at a distance as those other videographers did. NOTE again the cops didn't bother any of them, there's the clue. It wasn't the videoing it was HOW he went about doing it. He went into the perimeter of their crime scene. He seemed to be looking for a confrontation, he had numerous opportunities to leave and didn't. He wanted a confrontation and he got it. Hoped the cost of his dog's life was worth it, because it was his fault that any of that happened.

I realize you dislike anyone in authority be they civil or religious so you'll not be capable of seeing this the way I do, that's fine. You're right, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Fri, Jul 5, 2013 10:47am
MikeFromDelaware: The main stream media has been largely silent about this. They are generally pro-pig and rely on the pigs to feed them crime news and in return offer a pro-pig spin. Let's see what happens when pigs get carried away and arrest - or shoot - somebody from the MSM who "gets in their way."

I am struck how little regard Christians have for god's creatures. Not only the lack of concern for an innocent and loving pet. Look at the Amish and their cruel and inhumane puppy mils. The Amish are an evil, stiff-necked people. Everyone thinks they are cute riding around in their funny clothes in their horse-drawn buggies. But they are a nasty bunch; bullying members who don't conform, shunning those who opt out and using religion as an excuse to be parasites on the health care system.

Fri, Jul 5, 2013 11:05am
MikeFromDelaware: PS. Sort of ironic. On July 4th, you argued for obedience to authority.

Fri, Jul 5, 2013 7:30pm
Relax, guys. The only mail the postal service tracks are those where the customer has specifically purchased tracking services. The regular stamped letter (currently 46 cents) is not tracked in any way, shape or form. And again, the pieces that are tracked are on behalf of the person or firm that mailed them, for purposes of delivery confirmation. The customer pays extra for that service.

Fri, Jul 5, 2013 8:08pm
Pizza/Kavips aka Mr. Multiple Personality Disorder lies. Just like the government has lied about all the other tracking. Besides, what happens to data generated by sorting machines and code readers is not something a low-level employee would know.

Sat, Jul 6, 2013 5:04am
You're hilarious, Bill!

Sat, Jul 6, 2013 11:09am
I see on another message board that this radio station has been put up for sale. I'll miss you all.

Mike from Delaware
Sat, Jul 6, 2013 8:06pm
Billsmith: what message board? I looked online at sites that list radio stations for sale and there are none in Delaware. Besides, WDEL is doing just fine for Delmarva. Why would they want to unload a station that is getting good ratings, and has plenty of local spots?

Sun, Jul 7, 2013 7:01am
MikeFromDelaware: I'm surprised you didn't mention this first because it's a board where you post regularly (or at least someone using the same name). You claim to be an expert on broadcasting, so I will leave it to you to explain why. I do know that, in general, companies sell off parts of their businesses because they are under-performing, to acquire other properties, for tax advantages... Wawa closed a story in my neighborhood that always had a lot of customers. Go figure.

Mike from Delaware
Sun, Jul 7, 2013 8:25am

Mike from Delaware
Sun, Jul 7, 2013 8:37am
Bill smith: I haven't visited that site for few weeks, the security in my computer started warning me of some issue @that site that could cause damage to my computer, so I've not been there since.

I've never claimed to be an expert in the radio business, but having worked weekends for about 30 yrs @ WNRK, WAMS, WNNN-FM, & WILM I do have opinions & views based on what I saw & experienced. I'd be very surprised to see Delmarva Broadcasting sell off WDEL at this point in time.

Sun, Jul 7, 2013 10:35am
MikeFromDelaware: My memory is sort of fuzzy on this but it seems that those stations got sold along the way, too. I notice even more discussion about 1210 getting sold. So, I guess it happens. Were you "very surprised" when those other stations were sold?

I got a security alert a while back but I checked back and it was taken down the next day.

Sun, Jul 7, 2013 12:33pm
Two people died in the plane crash in San Francisco. Both were flown from the plane. This suggests they did not have their seat belts securely buckled, so it's their own damn fault. But somebody will probably try to sue any way.

People have the right to choose not to wear seat belts in cars and planes. But they are responsible for the consequences. Insurance companies should offer drivers optional seat belt-free coverage at a higher premium. If somebody does not take this extra coverage and they or anybody in the car isn't wearing a seat belt, their insurance is void.

The Korean airline should be banned from flying to the US. They tried to land on instruments but instrumentation at SFO was turned off. Notices had been posted to land using visual flight rules. The pilots did not do that and the crash resulted.

Air travel was safer and an all around better experience when we had the CAB (and Pan Am, TWA and Northwest Orient). Thank you, Jimmy Carter.

Mike from Delaware
Sun, Jul 7, 2013 1:38pm
Billsmith: Thanks for the head's up on the message board. The security warning had remained for a few days. So after a few days I just deleted it from my favorites. It was good to go back and catch up.

I read the thread, and as someone there said WDEL is billing a pretty decent sum for an AM station in today's world. From what I hear from folks who claim to be in the radio industry who post on that same radio chat board [so I don't know this by my own knowledge] most AM stations are money losers, apparently WDEL is a money maker.

Where as those other AM's in the Wilmington area that I worked at years ago, eventually were sold [WNRK, WAMS, and WNNN-FM], because they weren't billing well enough and couldn't compete with FM stations offering the same format. WAMS switched back to Oldies from Country as they just couldn't compete with the FM country stations WDSD-FM, WXCY-FM, and WXTU-FM. Then WAMS lost again to Oldies giant WOGL-FM, the end was in sight -1380 today is the DelDot station giving out dated pre-recorded traffic information. WNNN-FM was a CCM station, lost a major part of their audience when WXHL from Faith City signed on the air, the end was in sight for WNNN [today that station is WJKS playing Urban music]. WNRK's audience aged and local spot revenue vanished as that small town radio's audience's age was too old, the advertisers didn't want to buy air time for that older demo. The station was sold, became an Oldies format, that had great music, but poor signal, less audience, and no advertisers. Sold again and became a Mexican formated station and now is silent as that owner turned in the license so his MD station could increase in power [I'm not totally clear exactly on the details, but it was something like that] Bottom line 1260 is silent.

Bottom line to this discussion: It always gets down to money as radio is a business, not a hobby as some of us wish it could be. However, if the day comes where WDEL isn't pulling its weight and becomes a drain on Delmarva Broadcasting's bottomline, THEN it wouldn't surprise me to see 1150 go up for sale, but why sell off an asset that's making you money. I would think if WDEL was not a money maker then the first thing we'd see is more automated "satellite" programming and far less live and local programming. You know, a radio station in a closet [a computer radio station taking all its programming from the bird]. WDEL isn't even close to that, their day time programming is all live and local along with a live and local newsroom for local news coverage. My guess is, for now WDEL is in fine shape.

The only other way I could see Delmarva selling WDEL would be if there were an FM station they could buy that would offer a solid FM signal into the area that they could then move WDEL's programming to FM. Delmarva's downstate news/talker [Delaware 105.9] is already on FM. As far as I know, there aren't any FM stations in the metro area available for WDEL to move to. Delmarva surly isn't going to mess with their two very successful FM stations that serve the Wilmington metro area [WSTW and WXCY].

The other thing to consider is, WDEL/Delmarva are making good use of their website for local content, plus links to CBS, etc. They've got ads there too. As the audience moves from radio to online/IPods/IPhones/Blackberry, etc, WDEL's value from their online business will continue to grow and pull in new revenue for Delmarva.

Obviously, neither you nor I can really know, as we're not employees of Delmarva Broadcasting [if we were, we'd not be discussing this here or anywhere as that wouldn't be proper or ethical]. We're both just outsiders commenting on what someone else [most likely an outsider also] posted on a radio chat board. Its fun to speculate, but frankly I hope WDEL isn't anywhere near to being put on the chopping block. I and many others do value what WDEL provides the Wilmington area and hope Delmarva can continue to make money with their 1150 signal.

Sun, Jul 7, 2013 6:15pm
MikeFromDelaware: "It always gets down to money as radio is a business, not a hobby as some of us wish it could be. "
Sounds like you're in favor of socialized radio, like Britain. They'll kick you out of the tea party for talking like that.

Mike from Delaware
Sun, Jul 7, 2013 7:23pm
Bill smith: I don't have a problem with either commercial radio or listener supported radio like NPR & many religious stations like Lutheran Public Radio. I am not in favor of the tax payer paying to support radio or TV. Even though I don't agree with the TEA folks on some issues & even though I support socialized mass transit & healthcare(which they don't); I don't believe all things should be socialized, including radio & TV.

Sun, Jul 7, 2013 9:49pm
There is no where on the dial to find good stuff like this. This is why the plethora of live radio stations are gone.


Thank heavens for the internet....

Mike from Delaware
Mon, Jul 8, 2013 8:56am
Kavips: Personally I'm not a Lawrence Welk fan as my tastes in Big Band music are more along the lines of: Benny Goodman, Woody Herman, Count Basie, The Oscar Peterson Trio, George Shearing Quintet, etc, however must give Welk lots of credit as he certainly gave the public what they wanted and had one of the few big bands to have a successful TV show on prime time that lasted for many years and is still making money for the Welk's and PBS. People just seem to like those bubbles. Welk was a smart showman. He, like Glenn Miller, in his day, figured out what the public wanted and gave it to them [at the height of Glenn Miller's career 3 out of every 5 records played on a juke box was a Glenn Miller record. He was sort of like the Beatle's in popularity back in the early 1940's].

But the problem is this type of music be it Woody Herman or Lawrence Welk skews to a very old demo and the advertisers don't want to advertise to them.

One thing I learned about the radio business [from listening to what many who I worked with and others also in radio have said during the years] is the audience is radio's product, not the programming. A station will program their station to bring in a certain age/sex/income type audience so the advertisers will buy spot time on their station. I'm not any sort of expert on how radio works from the business side [Allan can offer far more insight obviously], but most advertisers don't seem to want to try to sell older folks, because we tend to be more settled as I've used the same laundry soap, face soap, shaving cream, deodorant, toothpaste, razor blades, drive the same brand of car, etc, for years. We aren't as willing to try the newest thing on the market.

Also, you and I as more "mature" folks don't believe the claims made in either radio or TV spots, "stretching the truth" is the norm in ads and we all tend to be skeptical, whereas the kids and those 20 somethings still believe they wouldn't lie to you. Most "older" folks, having been burned a few times in their life by false claims made in radio/TV ads, tend to not believe their claims.

So those two factors alone make it so that the advertisers don't even aim their ads at us, UNLESS their product IS for old people, like Geritol [do they still sell this haven't seen or heard an ad for them since Lawrence Welk's show left network Television many years ago - haha], Depends the diaper that Senator Bob Dole did some commericials for back years ago, funeral homes, preplanning for your funeral, nursing homes, and of course the mainstay of elder TV spots - Medicines of all sorts with their disclamors that scare the crap out of folks, yet still apparently help drive med sales or the drug companies wouldn't spend the millions of dollars in advertising.

Allan or WDEL's PD Chris Carl can offer far more insight on this as I'm no expert at all, but am only repeating what I've been told over and over during my 30 years as a part time radio employee as why formats I'd personally enjoy more aren't on commercial radio, and seem to only be found on NPR/College/or Online radio stations. As always it gets down to money.

If you really want to hear Lawrence Welk's music, go to I Heart Radio online and create your own station by typing in Welk's name for an artist, and you'll get his music commercial free. I've done this with many artists I like.

Mon, Jul 8, 2013 6:39pm
MFD: I like Welk AND all the other people you mentioned.

Mon, Jul 8, 2013 8:14pm
I'm starting to like this guy. Pope Frank has gone after right-wing immigrant haters. This will probably get him approval from Hispanic Catholics (responsible for most of the growth in the US Catholic population) but not from tea party, anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage and anti immigration Anglo Catholics.

Mostly the corporate-controlled mainstream media have ignored this story. Will the Pope call for excommunication of anti-immigrant politicians. Tricky Dick brought Catholics (and fundamentalists) into the Republican Party by making the party officially anti-abortion. If the church is pro-immigrant, will that drive a wedge between the church and the ditto-heads?
Pope blasts indifference over migration deaths

LAMPEDUSA, Sicily (AP) — Pope Francis on Monday denounced the "globalization of indifference" that greets migrants who risk their lives trying to reach Europe, as he traveled to the farthest reaches of Italy to draw attention to their plight and to mourn those who never made it.

The tiny Sicilian island of Lampedusa, a treeless, strip of rock nine kilometers (four miles) long, is closer to Africa than the Italian mainland and is the main port of entry into Europe for African migrants smuggled by boat from Libya or Tunisia.

Francis decided last week to make Lampedusa his first pastoral trip outside of Rome, compelled by a particularly deadly crossing in which a dozen migrants lost their lives. Despite the spur-of-the-moment decision, the island came through, building a makeshift lectern, pastoral staff and chalice out of recycled wood from shipwrecked migrant boats.

Francis greeted newly arrived Africans and during an open-air Mass on the island's soccer field, thanked the residents for welcoming so many men and women over the years.

But the core reason for the visit, he said, was to mourn those who died trying to make a better life for themselves and their families. He tossed a wreath of flowers into the sea in their memory, calling their deaths a "thorn in the heart" that occurs so often it is simply ignored.

"Who wept for these people who were aboard the boat?" Francis asked in his homily. "For the young mothers who brought their babies? For these men who wanted to support their families?"

"We are a society that has forgotten how to cry," he said.

Dozens of fishing boats accompanied Francis' coast guard ship as it pulled into port, a seaborne motorcade to honor the first pope to visit an island that often feels it has been abandoned by Europe to process the thousands of would-be immigrants who come ashore each year.

"Pope Francis, only you can save us," read a banner on one of the boats. "Welcome among the least," said a poster with an Argentine and Italian flag dangling from an apartment building.

As his plane was landing, a boat carrying some 160 Eritreans arrived in port, the latest in a new wave of migrants taking advantage of calm seas and warm weather to make the treacherous crossing. Officials said they were in good condition, just cold.

Francis, whose ancestors immigrated to Argentina from Italy, has a special place in his heart for refugees: As archbishop of Buenos Aires, he denounced the exploitation of migrants as "slavery" and said those who did nothing to help them were complicit by their silence.

He repeated that message on Monday, railing against smugglers who take advantage of the poverty of migrants to enrich themselves. He challenged everyone to take responsibility for the migrants' desperation, urging them not to have "anesthesia of the heart."

"The culture of our own well-being makes us insensitive to the cries of others," he said. "It brings us to feeling indifferent to others, to the globalization of indifference."

Then directing himself to the Muslims on the island, he said: "The church is with you in the search for a more dignified life for you and your families."

Francis has said he wants his to be a missionary church, one that goes to the "peripheries" to minister to the most marginal.

It was appropriate then that he choose faraway Lampedusa as his first pastoral visit, and its residents welcomed him warmly, shouting "Viva il Papa" as he drove by in an open-topped Fiat — not the usual bullet-proof popemobile — and wildly waving the yellow and white flags of the Vatican.

The Vatican said 10,000 people attended the Mass, twice the island's population. National politicians weren't among them, to avoid the inevitable squabbling over illegal immigration that is a mainstay of Italian politics.

"It was not even thinkable that the pope would come to an Island like this one," said resident Andrea Pavia, who came out with his tearful wife and daughter to watch the pope drive by. "I am so happy, I am so emotional. I just can't believe it."

The Mass site was located on a soccer field that in 2011 housed thousands of migrants who flooded to Italy during the Arab Spring. It's near the "boat cemetery" that holds the remains of broken migrant ships that have reached Lampedusa's rocky shores.

Tue, Jul 9, 2013 4:36am
Where's Nixon when you really need him?

Tue, Jul 9, 2013 6:15am
Pizza/Kavips: Aren't you going to tell us how Tricky Dick is the "greatest president in our lifetimes." Tricky makes me want to believe in hell.

Mike from Delaware
Tue, Jul 9, 2013 10:27am
Mrpizza: interesting how music can bridge differences in folks. You and Kavips are on the opposite ends of the political spectrum [Kavips is a DEM, you a TEA/GOP] yet both of you like Lawrence Welk. He had a great band [excellent top notch musicians]. When they did tributes to the other big bands using the other bands charts his shows were good, but its his "hokey" arrangements [his charts] I didn't like. But you can't knock success, he gave the public what they wanted and other than Guy Lombardo [another hokey band] were the two best known big bands in the 60's and 70's, unfortunately.

The cooler big bands didn't have that broad appeal. Woody Herman's Herd's, as they were known, were great, progressive, and always experimenting, same with Count Basie's band. Most of the other big bands by the 70's were "ghost bands" the "name" was dead and someone else fronted the band playing the same old charts: Glenn Miller, Artie Shaw [he was retired], Harry James, Tommy Dorsey, Jimmy Dorsey, etc. Of course now Basie's band and Herman's bands as well as Duke Ellington's bands are also ghost bands.

The other big band that continued on very successfully until the name passed on was Les Brown and his Band of Renown. He hooked up with Bob Hope back during WWII doing Hope's Christmas Shows to the troops and essentially after the war years, made his career being Hope's Studio Orchestra for all his various radio and TV shows and all the other wars where Bob Hope entertained the troops.

Benny Goodman's band's didn't keep on when he stopped playing in the late 40's. He continued to do combo stuff and would form a big band for special events like the 1958 Brussels World's Fair, 1962 Trip to Moscow [first US non-classical band to go to Soviet Union].

Even entertainers like Linda Ronstat has fans who are liberal DEMS and conservative GOP/TEA folks, as she discovered when she made some negative remarks about Bush Jr at one of her performances [I believe in Las Vegas] and a lot of folks got angry and walked out. They paid to hear her music, not hear her political views. So music can unite or bridge folks who otherwise wouldn't have anything in common as long as the entertainer/musican doesn't give some sort of political rant while on stage.

Tue, Jul 9, 2013 10:49am
MikeFromDelaware: Why are you unable to spell out the names of political parties? And how do you miss the fact that not all Republicans (R-E-P-U-B-L-I-C-A-N-S) are tea partiers and not all Democrats (D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T-S) are liberals (L-I-B-E-R-A-L-S). This is an illustration of what happens to people who rely on radio and TV for news and then think themselves informed.

Pizza and Kavips both like Lawrence Welk because they are the same person. He just goes back and forth taking the most idiotically extreme position he can imagine in any direction - either because he enjoys trolling or because he suffers from dissociative (multiple) personality disorder.

Mike from Delaware
Tue, Jul 9, 2013 12:43pm
Billsmith: DEM GOP/TEA is far less typing. This isn't an English writing class. Yes I realize that not all GOP folks are TEA folks and that there are a few DEMS who aren't libs. Funny how the DEMS have chased most conservative/moderate folks out of their party while the GOP has done the same thing to the moderate/liberal folks in their party. So Liberals have a home in the DEM party and Conservatives have a home in the GOP party, and moderates of either party should form a third party as neither of these two parties wants the moderate, in my opinion.

Tue, Jul 9, 2013 3:49pm
MikeFromDelaware: Given the length of some of your posts, it does not seem like saving keystrokes would be a priority for you.
When you get facts wrong, you say it doesn't matter.
When you you expound on something and it's pointed out you don't know what you're talking about, you say it's just your opinion.
When you take liberties with the mother tongue, you say it's not an English class.
You seem to be saying that are just wind-bagging for the fun of it and don't take what you say seriously.

Tue, Jul 9, 2013 6:51pm
billsmith: The greatest president in our lifetime was Ronald Reagan. However, considering that Obama is the most evil president in American history, I wouldn't mind having Nixon back.

Tue, Jul 9, 2013 8:07pm
Pizza/Kavips: Ronnie was as great a president as he was an actor. ;)
Maybe you could dig up Tricky Dick and prop up what's left of him in the living room. Joe McCarthy and George Wallace, too.

Tue, Jul 9, 2013 9:24pm
billsmith: Nah. McCarthy and Wallace were too far on the fringes even for a bigot like me.

Tue, Jul 9, 2013 9:44pm
ha. ha.. Bill Smith has the longest post here... Plus he is just as guilty of all those points he accuses MFD of being. I guess we all are to some extent, which is why we journey over here, instead of watching TV advertisements every 10 minutes because there is supposed to be a program of content somewhere in between.

Tue, Jul 9, 2013 9:47pm
And I'm beginning to appreciate Ronald Reagan more and more as I discover the details from his administration. Particularly that he raised taxes quickly and rapidily to get us out of the recession yet still be known as the tax cutting president...That's pretty impressive.

Tue, Jul 9, 2013 10:31pm
I see nobody has mentioned the train derailment in Canada, so I'll start the discussion right here.

The oil was being transported from North Dakota to a refinery in New Brunswick, a 2000+ mile trip. This also is the fourth accident this year involving trains transporting oil.

I believe this makes a very strong case for the trans-Canada pipeline. If we're going to produce our own oil, which we should vs. buying from the Middle East, then we need to build the proper infrastructure to do it safely.
The number of carloads of rail-transported oil has grown from 500 in 2009 to over 140,000 estimated for this year. Clearly, there's more than enough growth in the industry to justify the pipeline. Yeah, there are those who will complain about the environment, but clearly a lot more people have died just in this one Canadian town than would die from any environmental issues created by the pipeline.

Let's do the right thing, Mr. President!

Wed, Jul 10, 2013 6:37am
Pizza/Kavips: (a) I'm amazed you are paying attention to something happening outside this country. (b) I'm surprised you are concerned about "furriners" getting killed, especially ones who don't speak English.

This is not about transporting oil. It's about a railroad with lax safety practices (like that fertilizer plant in West, Texas. It's about corporate greed and irresponsibility. And the train was not transporting oil. It was sitting on a siding and left unattended. There are indications the train was not properly secured before the crew left and the railroad has a history of equipment issues.

The company that wants to build the XL Pipeline also has a history of safety issues, malfunctions and leaks. Pipeline companies, like rail companies (sometimes the two are the same company) can be just as greedy and irresponsible. Some bean counters apparently think it's cheaper to clean up than to prevent.

Wed, Jul 10, 2013 6:45am
Another news story about little kids being left in a hot car and dying. The kids are in kiddie seat in back and the parent goes off and forget they are there. The car gets hot and the kid dies of the heat.

Why? A big reason, nobody wants to mention, is air bags. A lot of people won't wear seat belts, so congress forced front and passenger side air bags on everybody (including those of us who DO wear seat belts). Air bags, by law, can not be turned off or disabled. If a little kid is in a kiddie seat in front, and the air bag deploys, the air bag could seriously injure, even kill, the kid. So, kids have to go in back. Out of sight, out of mind.

Every problem began as the solution to some other problem - Will Rogers

Wed, Jul 10, 2013 8:11am
Read how Jesus Jumpers screw up their kids:
I was a home-school freak

I was in the first grade when a troupe of dancing condoms changed my life forever. My older sister was in high school, and her sex education class had used a quirky ploy − people wearing condom costumes while gyrating onstage − to teach students about safe sex. My mother, a religious woman, was outraged. She cried about the state of the public school system. She complained to the principal. And when none of that proved useful, she decided her children would never be subjected to such inappropriate displays. My younger sister Sarah and I would be home-schooled...


Mike from Delaware
Wed, Jul 10, 2013 8:36am
Billsmith: you just love to find a way to bash any and all things Christian.

Interesting article [at least I read or listen to the links you provide, you didn't with a few I've posted by your replies].

One important sentence you ignored from the article:

"I realize that many of the nearly 2 million home-school students in the United States don’t have experiences like mine. They get sparkling educations, and come through the relative isolation with their social skills intact."

My youngest son is one of those 2 million. We home schooled up to the high school level and then he went to Delcastle for high school and then to DelTech for college. Today he has a fine full time job with benefits/pension/healthcare insurance/and yes even paid vacation.

Just as some kids have a bad experience in the home schooled world, other kids have a bad experience in the public school world, but I sure don't see you bashing that entire group.

In Delaware, home schoolers are required to be in an "umbrella group". They are your accountability folks. THEY definitely know the state requirements and you have to meet with them periodically to show the progress of your students, etc, that they are meeting state requirements for their particular grade. The woman we used for this had been herself a public school teacher so was a degreed teacher, plus had also taught home school to her kids. She was a wealth of knowledge and was worth the money we paid her to guide and assist us. So don't go off making gross assumptions that all of us "Jesus Jumpers, Bible Thumpers, etc, etc," who home school do such a lousy job with our students. Test scores nationally over and over again have home schooled students far out shining their public school peers.

One other point. It's not just Christians who home school, many Muslims, Religious Jews, Hindus [any religious group that doesn't want their kids being taught some of the crap that's being forced on kids in today's public schools]. Why do you think Catholic, Lutheran, and other Christian groups as well as Jewish schools exist? Home schooling is just another piece of that pie.

Kavips said earlier: "ha. ha.. Bill Smith has the longest post here... Plus he is just as guilty of all those points he accuses MFD of being. I guess we all are to some extent, which is why we journey over here, instead of watching TV advertisements every 10 minutes because there is supposed to be a program of content somewhere in between."

I say, AMEN, I totally agree Kavips.

Mike from Delaware
Wed, Jul 10, 2013 10:31am
Here's an interview that all the regulars [EarlGrey, Kavips, Mrpizza, JimH, and Billsmith] will probably find of interest.

Dr. John Warwick Montgomery of Patrick Henry College offers some rather interesting insights on the topic, Is America a Christian Nation? This interview was conducted on Lutheran Public Radio's "Issues, Etc." talk show. The link is below. Scroll down until you find this program. You may find some of the other programs of interest as well. Would be interested in your thoughts after hearing what he has to say. Enjoy.


Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:03pm
Patrick Henry College is a right-wing, fundamentalist school targeting students who have been home schooled. They are not accredited by the major accrediting agencies, in part because they teach creationism.

The statement that the US is a "Christian nation" is the phrase the religious right uses to justify a theocracy and imposing (what they consider) Christian practices and "values" on society at large. The US may have a large Christian population. But it is not a "Christian nation," it is a pluralistic nation, in which many movements and traditions are represented. One of the lies these people like to tell is the statement that the founders were Christians and the Declaration of Independence is based on Christian principles. It is a lie. Some founders did consider themselves Christian. Many considered themselves deists (including Jefferson, who wrote the declaration). The Declaration of Independence comes from enlightenment principles, in particular the philosophers Locke and Rousseau.

Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:05pm
"ha. ha.. Bill Smith has the longest post here... "
Kavips/Pizza: I'm not the one talking about wanting to save keystrokes here.

Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:36pm
Credit where credit is due: Christians actually doing something to help and to provide an alternative to abortion.
Virginia church puts couple's unborn Down syndrome baby up for adoption on FACEBOOK and gets 900 responses from families wanting to raise it

* The Holy Trinity Catholic Church in Gainesville posted the appeal on Monday morning
* It came after Reverend Thomas Vander Woude begged the young couple to let him find an appropriate adoptive family rather than abort the pregnancy
* Church was shocked by the flood of offers that came from across the globe
* The parents are now interviewing three of those families with an adoption agency

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2359503/Rev-Thomas-Vander-Woude-appeal-Virginia-church-puts-couples-unborn-Down-syndrome-baby-adoption-FACEBOOK-gets-900-responses.html#ixzz2YfImY9kL
Of course, what kind of life can this child have? Will it grow up wishing it had not been born and that this priest had minded his own business?

Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:41pm
Funny thing is Bill Smith... I knew in advance that was exactly the retort you were going to say if you did reply.. lol. True, I don't know how, but I did.

I agree with your speech on Christian Nation. I also understand the fundamentalists whose support for this phrase is based on their misinterpretation that it simply means a nation being full of Christians, but it is very clear from our Constitution that we are not established as a "Christian Nation".

When Tea Partiers attempt to bring up the word "Creator" in the Declaration of Independence, my quick retort is "don't all other religions have Creator's too"...

George Washington rarely if ever used the word God as all his biographers make note. From his first public speakings he always opted for the word "Providence"

The US is a very secular nation; one that happens to be full of many Christians. That has worked well over the past 200 years so one should see no reason to change it.

(Mike: I haven't had time to yet get to that link)...

Mike from Delaware
Wed, Jul 10, 2013 3:34pm
Billsmith and Kavips: The reason I posted that link was this Professor, who is a Christian, teaches at a fundamentalist college, who is Pro-Life, etc, etc, actually says in the interview that this is NOT a Christian nation and that most of the Founding Fathers were not Christians and didn't intend for this to be a "Christian Nation" as there's nothing in either the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution mentioning Jesus or Christianity. He discusses how many Christians in politics are using Christianity to get elected [but their governing style doesn't reflect that once they get into office, etc. How in the public square Christians are hurting evangelization with trying to force their beliefs on others, etc. Sure there will be some things he says that you'll not agree with, same as I don't agree with everything he said in that interview, but it was very different from what I expected.

That was recorded on July 4th. He is supposed to be back today for the second of five visits on this topic. Todays' show is supposed to discuss prayer in schools, etc. My guess is it will show up on the podcast site on Thursday. That one ought to be interesting too.

So Billsmith: you again judged the content without even listening, same as you did with that Assembly of God sermon I shared a week or two ago, which also had some surprising things in it, you probably would have agreed with some of what was said then too. You really need to stop trying to make all Christian's fit your preconcieved notion of what a Christian is. Yes, some fit your mold, but most don't.

You do, what you accuse us of doing, making judgments without having all the facts. Don't allow your hatred of Christianity and it many problems to keep you from ever seeing the good side. That is just as wrong as a white person only seeing the bad side of black people, or straight folks only seeing the bad side of gay folks. It's all the same thing. Each group has its warts, but each group also has good stuff. We might all be better at finding ways to compromise and work together if we can focus more on the good stuff from each group and paying far less attention to the warts that we see in the others [splinter in their eye vs log in our eye].

Wed, Jul 10, 2013 5:56pm
MikeFromDelaware: Not that you've told me something about the content, I am inclined to listen. It's almost an hour interview and you were asking us to listen "blind." You talk about having been in the radio biz, you should know that you need to tell people why they should listen.

And as I have said before, I admire the precepts in the gospels. I dislike the same qualities of self-righteousness, hypocrisy and flaunting of piety that Jesus repeated denounced in his day.

In a way, I think the founders made a mistake barring establishment of religion. In countries with an established religion, few people take religious practices seriously or try to impose them on others. Go figure.

Wed, Jul 10, 2013 9:59pm
billsmith: You are an idiot! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Mike from Delaware
Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:59pm
I said you guys would find the interview of interest just as I did on the Assembly of God sermon. You couldn't take 5 minutes & try a bit, of either. Heaven forbid it might not be to your liking. After a bit you could always bail out. Yet you expect us to be open to links you post. Even if you hear something you might not normally agree with, so what? Maybe something said might challenge your thoughts & notions about Christians or whatever the topic. You complain about my use of DEM / GOP as being lazy , yet you don't make any effort to broaden your horizons, which from where I sit is intellectual laziness. So another effort at having some sort of meaningful discussion goes down the drain. Unfortunately it wasn't surprising. Well, I need a break from this one sided anti-Christian discussion, that is endless. I'll be back when I've got time to waste. Talk to you all later.

Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:56am
MikeFromDelaware: When I post links, I post something about this link, a summary, an introduction or why I wanted to share it. You posted something about the speaker (which mostly discredited him) and a title. Now you are offended that we don't take your word that this is worth our time. This one more thing that is a big pain about you Jesus people: You think everyone will want to hear your "message" and should want to hear your "message" and then are offended when people don't. But that gives you all an excuse to feel persecuted and you all love feeling persecuted. You all think you've got GOD'S TRUTH and everybody else is WRONG. So, you have no respect for anybody else, their ideas or their time because THEY ARE WRONG (and going to hell). Pure arrogance.

I have posted information which undermines claims of Biblical infallibility and examines the historic context and sources of scripture. How many of those did you read? Oh, I know. That's different. Because that's heresy and the sermons you post are THE TRUTH!

Thu, Jul 11, 2013 6:01am

U.S. health 'mediocre' compared to other wealthy countries despite spending the most of any nation on Earth

Despite already spending more per head than any other nation on Earth, the United States suffers 'mediocre' health care according to newly published research.

'The United States spends the most per capita on health care across all countries, lacks universal health coverage, and lags behind other high-income countries for life expectancy and many other health outcome measures,' wrote the authors of the new report, published July 10th in JAMA.

Read More: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2359817/U-S-health-mediocre-compared-wealthy-countries-despite-spending-nation-Earth.html

On most measures, the US dropped between 1990 and 2010. But the healthcare industry is doing very well.

Thu, Jul 11, 2013 6:06am
Let's see how tolerant the Bible Bangers are....
Pastor faces the sack after wife writes newspaper column lampooning Southern Baptists - their own church - as 'raging Shiite Baptists'

* Angela Thomas wrote a newspaper column lampooning Southern Baptists as 'the crazy old paranoid uncle of evangelical Christians'
* Now a question mark hangs over her husband Bill's job as assistant pastor at the First Baptist Church in Madisonville, Kentucky
* His boss claims he has accepted Thomas' resignation, but Thomas claims that he hasn't quit
* His wife's column was in response to the church's opposition to the Boy Scouts of America now welcoming gay members

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2359393/Pastor-faces-sack-wife-writes-local-newspaper-column-lampooning-Southern-Baptists--church--raging-Shiite-Baptists.html#ixzz2YjJwTqWF
SBC is "Shiite Baptists."
Tea Party is "American Taliban."
It sure its.

Thu, Jul 11, 2013 6:09am
The "greatest president in our lifetimes" is really the new Nixon.
Americans turn against government as poll shows a majority SUPPORT Edward Snowden as a whistle-blower, not a traitor

The Quinnipiac University national poll found 55 per cent of registered voters regard Snowden as a whistle-blower, while just 34 per cent see him as a traitor.

Read More: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2359547/Americans-turn-government-poll-shows-majority-SUPPORT-Edward-Snowden-whistle-blower-traitor.html

Thu, Jul 11, 2013 6:57am
Kavips: There's only one creator, and that's God (Genesis 1:1). As far as multiple religions are concerned, Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the father except by me" (John 14:6). Also, "In the last days, many false prophets will arise" (Matthew 24:11).

Seems pretty clear to me.

Mike from Delaware
Thu, Jul 11, 2013 8:44am
Billsmith: Actually I do go to most of the links you provide [my bigger issue is finding the time to take to go there]. Yes quite often I don't read the entire article, but skim it to get the basic message and then tune out [that is the draw back to a audio sermon, kind of hard to do that, so yes I understand the problem with giving up an hour to hear something you probably aren't going to agree with, I just wanted you, especially, to be surprised at what both men said in those two links]. Even though I knew going to most of the links you provide that I'd probably not agree I did take a look.

I guess what really it is, is you and I have been beating this dead horse for quite some time here on the blog. You definitely do have your hangups with Christianity and possibly with good reason in many cases. There have been times as we both know all through history where church people have NOT acted as Jesus would [Flesh vs Spirit]. Happens every day. I too am probably guilty of not acting as Jesus would far more often than I'd like to thing, but as a fallen sinful person, know its true [can't earn salvation]. For those things I totally understand why you dislike the church so much, there's plenty to NOT like [ I too have been injured by the church during my life - it does seem that some in the church will shoot their wounded.] One preacher said, the Christian Church is the only army that shoots its wounded. As you might imagine that was not a feel good sermon, but one of those where the rubber meets the road type, that any and all congregations need to hear every now and again.

I've been wounded a number of times in my life and felt the sting of a boot in my side rather than a hand of compassion helping to lift me up. The difference between us, it seems to me is that I choose to focus on Jesus and look past the knuckleheads that are unfortunately in the church. You expect Christians to be just like Jesus. Granted that is the standard, but not even Francis of Assisi hit the standard [he along with Mother Theresa probably comes far closer than most of us who've walked the planet], but because of OUR failings to meet that standard you see no value for being one of Jesus' followers. Because I have knuckleheads within my own family doesn't cause me to give up my family name and leave the family, but that is what it appears that you're doing.

I'm assuming you were baptized in to the LCMS church many years ago as a baby probably [you may even did your Confirmation as a youth so you then made a conscious choice in following Christ], and as you know from your Lutheran background, its not once saved always saved, but you choose each day to be a follower of Christ, so yes, even someone like you who has the Holy Spirit dwelling in you from Baptism can choose to say NO and walk away from Christ.

I've tried to offer you hope and some insight, as best as my feeble knowledge, poor writing skills, and lack of a degree from a institute of higher learning allows me to say to help you find your way back to Christ, be it Lutheran or otherwise [you are saved by Christ not the church]. But I think we're just spinning our wheels and don't see the value of wasting any more time debating this issue.

You have your view of Christ, His Church, His people, the LCMS, etc, etc. To you we're all Bible Thumpers, Jesus Jumpers, Intolerant ignorant hicks, etc, etc. So be it. I enjoy discussing stuff with you, but I think we need to discuss secular stuff as we've ground this dead horse into Kennel Ration quite some ago.

By the way, my wife and I started our membership classes at our LCMS Lutheran Church last night. Had a great discussion with the pastor on the gay/lesbian issue. He too agreed with my comment that the big challenge for the church is for us to be welcoming to the GLBT folks, yet not compromise the word. Obviously, he believes the ELCA as the other liberal churches have just folded and now is accepting anything, so obviously you won't agree with his view. He was very adament that the church [referring to the LCMS] needs to welcome these folks, but just as with any sin though can not look the other way. He even said, that if he found out I was cheating on my wife, he'd confront me on it, because that too is a serious sin [he said obviously if he doesn't know about it how can he know to say anything about it to me]. So when in today's world the GLBT folks essentially are flaunting their lifestyle in a congregation's face, and as his/my understanding of God's Holy Word [LCMS view] says that too is a sin, he has no choice, but to confront it as he would other sins. He agreed with me that gay/lesbians have probably been in the church since the 1st century, but because they didn't advertise it, but kept it in their private bedrooms, no one knew. THAT is the difference today. He said, that is a difficult problem, because those folks need Christ just as much as the rest of us. How to reach them in love, yet not say its OK to continue on in what you're doing.

I asked him more about the Lutheran "Mass" issue. He said that yes years ago, and even today some older Lutherans would have a problem with calling it a Mass. However, he said it is, as the word mass means celebration. He said the major thing that makes the "Lutheran Mass" not like the Catholic Mass is theirs is called the sacrifice of the mass vs we Lutherans don't believe Jesus has to be crucified again each time in the Mass, but we Celebrate what God/Jesus has done for us, so our Mass is a Celebration, so the word Mass is quite appropriate. He told me a story of his buddy from seminary's town in the mid west where he's pastoring, and there was some grief from some of the older members when the put up a Crucifix. We have one at our church as a small Cross that gets carried in during the opening processional of our service that is a crcifix. No one at our church has complained. So apparently the LCMS has loosened up some of that anti-Catholic thing. They still don't commune with Rome and see the Papal office as the anti-Christ [not the person nessisarily], but making the sign of the cross, etc, are no longer not done in either the LCMS or ELCA Lutheran Churches as I've said before. He said the sign of the cross reminds us of our Baptism as we were baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. So yes those things apparently have changed a bit since you were a kid, just as many things in the Roman church have changed since I was a kid.

Thu, Jul 11, 2013 10:42am
Pizza: Thank you for providing Exhibit A showing the Christian attitude which can be paraphrased as we are right, everybody else is wrong. We have a monopoly on THE TRUTH. Other false religions have no right to exist (let alone to equal treatment under law).

MikeFromDelaware: Wow! You spent a lot of key strokes this morning. I don't expect anyone to read what I post or consider anyone narrow-minded if they don't. If I post something, I see it as like those "share" buttons a lot of sites have. A few times, I even posted links to something I didn't like but I thought you'd find it interesting. I rarely post audio links. With a news story you can scan or skim it easily and if you want, read the whole thing. Not with audio. Yes, you can bail out after five minutes on audio but the first five minutes may not represent the whole piece. And yes, if you post something from - say - On Point or Fresh Air, I am more likely to listen because I know the source.

Heck, the LCMS doesn't even commune with the ELCA or those Wisconsin folks, let alone the Vatican.

Funny, you say "GLBT folks essentially are flaunting their lifestyle in a congregation's face." I've never heard of a contingent coming to a church opposed to gay equality for a "gay pride" demonstration. Have you? It seems to be that flaunting ones lifestyle in other people's faces is more what Christians do. Beyond that, gays don't try to convert people; that's a Christian thing. But your comments here, like Pizza's, seems to reflect the Christian mind-set that Christians consider themselves right and therefore others should keep quiet, keep a low profile and be grateful that Christians no longer arrest, imprison and execute apostates, heretics, dissenters and infidels.

For the record, I don't think people in the Missouri Synod are "Bible Thumpers, Jesus Jumpers, Intolerant ignorant hicks, etc, etc." That's more fundamentalists like the SBC and AG. LCMS is more stiff-necked, Krauts who love order, discipline, rules. "A Mighty Fortress." "Onward Christian Soldiers." "Uber alles in der Welt."

Mike from Delaware
Thu, Jul 11, 2013 1:31pm
Billsmith: By flaunting, I meant, if the GLBT person has a significant other and they show up as a couple thus making it obvious they are a same sex couple. I didn't say a demonstration or trying to convert the Christians to their way of thinking. Two guys come in holding hands, etc, would probably be noticed by most folks in a church.

I know you hate the idea of Christians trying to share their faith with non-believers, but consider this, IF what we believe is true and by not knowing Christ as Lord and Savior is a guaranteed ticket to Hell for eternity, what sort of person would I be to say too bad for you, I'm not going to share what I know with you, because I don't give a rip if you go to Hell or Heaven, because I've got my fire insurance? That surly isn't what Jesus would do. I totally understand YOU don't believe what the Bible says about Christ as the ONLY path to God and salvation, but folks like me DO. So how can people like me NOT tell you and others? You were a Lutheran, you know I and others don't get "brownie points" with God for getting you saved. We share, because its what Christ told us to do and its what he'd do, because he doesn't want ANYONE to perish. You know all this, but choose to ignore it and make your shots. That's why this has become a pointless discussion. I've tried to help you see the truth in Christ, but you truly are not interested, so rather than continue to go back and forth on each other, let's just agree to disagree , because I may not like it, but I can accept that you just aren't interested and that is your right of which I have to respect, your free will. So I'm just going to ignore your further shots at the church, Christ, etc, because this is just a circular discussion going nowhere. So if this is a debate, you won, as I can't convince you of what I'm saying to be the truth. Of course you didn't convince me either of your position. So we shake hands, and move on to something else.

Thu, Jul 11, 2013 2:12pm
MikeFromDelaware: If show up with your wife holding hands is that flaunting?

One of the basic flaws in Christianity (unlike many other belief systems) is it is based on "faith." You have to believe. Disbelief, even doubt, are unacceptable. You are justified by faith. Blessed are they who have not seen and yet believe. Lord I believe, help thou my unbelief. If you doubt, you sink into the sea. So when you harass people in the name of Jesus, you are not really trying to "save" them. You are trying to allay your own doubts. That is the root of the basic intolerance of Christianity. You can't abide doubt or different ideas in anyone. Basic social psychology. The mind strives for consistency and dissonance is threatening.

You are not convincing me but I hope you are convincing yourself. Besides, you are the one who started bringing up religion here and you keep finding ways to work it in. I'm just offering the other side. But, of course, you are sharing THE TRUTH and I am persecuting Christianity. Just like you hold hands, it's affection and gays hold hands, it's flaunting.

Besides, god decided before the beginning of time who was going to get in to heave. It's a done deal. The game is rigged. That's basic Christian doctrine but one they don't talk about much. God even decided before creation that we should be having these conversations.

Christians keep wanting to declare this a "Christian nation" but they assume that the people they harass don't know anything about Christianity. It's my experience the people who left did their homework before leaving and know more about it than most Christians, who only parrot what they've been told.

Mike from Delaware
Thu, Jul 11, 2013 3:23pm
I see that in 2014 Christiana Mall will be getting a new movie complex. That's great, but I sure wish the movies were better. Way too much violence, explosions, and general mayhem, for my taste [not may "Citizen Kane" films being made now - too much dialog, not enough action]. Of course the things blowing up, mindless sex, violence, etc, that appeals to the teen/20 somethings who will pony up the expensive priced tickets far more often than I do, so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that something of deeper quality doesn't show up as often. Every now and again something really good does show up, but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule, in my opinion.

Sort of like TV back in the day, we had channels 3,6,10, and 12, in black and white. There seemed to be a lot on to watch. Today we have over 100 stations and rarely find much of interest to watch. Obviously I was a kid then and my tastes have changed since then and maybe adults then said the same thing that there wasn't much to watch. I probably watch documentaries more often, [other than NCIS and The West Wing] via PBS and via Netflix. But again the TV advertisers don't want older audiences so they too are appealing to the youngest demos. It is what it is.

So while it is exciting to hear that Christiana Mall will again have a movie complex, chances are I'll not be there often unless the movies shown change.

Thu, Jul 11, 2013 6:18pm
MikeFromDelaware: In today's world of HD TVs (3D has already started) and home theater systems, there's only one reason for movie theaters: Dating.

You don't watch today's movies but you seem to think you know all about them, what's being made and what isn't. Maybe you heard some sermon on this subject and took a preacher's word for the state of movies.

In fact (sorry to cloud this issue with facts) a lot of the heavily promoted "blockbusters" do depend on action, violence and sex. That's what young guys who buy tickets for movie dates want to see. But what you and that preacher conveniently ignore are the so-called "independent" productions. They aren't really independent. They are distributed by the major studios but they target theaters specializing in indies (and some revivals), and of course, the home market, which is now the biggest part of the movie industry.

Instead of listening to some pompous, self-righteous preacher - who probably got the sermon from service - try reading some movie critics. You say you listen to NPR and they are regularly doing segments on the kinds of movies you and your preacher say aren't being made any more.

I find plenty to watch but I have a DVR (a Tivo). Yes, if I turn on live TV there may not be anything at the moment I want to see but my Tivo's hard drive right now has over 50 hours of stuff I want to see (and probably won't get to see much of). And beyond that there's streaming content from Comcast, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu (much of it free). But why ruin an opportunity to rant.

The main difference between US and foreign TV: US TV shows gratuitous and often explicit violence. Not allowed in much of Europe. But they do show bare boobs. In the US, boobs only on HBO and Showtime. Funny, that the religious right is OK with violence but not boobs. Sort of sick.

Thu, Jul 11, 2013 7:28pm
billsmith: Take it up with my boss.

Mike from Delaware
Thu, Jul 11, 2013 7:58pm
Billsmith: I went and saw Superman. In my opinion, it could have been done in 90 minutes [maybe 60], but spent 2 1/2 hours most of that with things blowing up and tons of violence and destruction. Many young kids in the theatre watching the movie. For me, it actually got boring. You can only watch one guy throw the other guy into a building and destroy building after building, etc, before, it gets boring.

Most of my TV/movie viewing is via Netflix. Xfinity only allows you to view the channels you have on your cable and I'm not willing to jack up my cable bill by at least $65./month just so I can watch an occasional show. Hulu we also watch sometimes, again the free stuff.

I couldn't tell you what any of the pastor's I've known during the years watch or don't watch in the movies or on TV. I've never had a pastor preach on the evils of movies or Television, so there's another one of your precious stereotypes against Christians you like to tout that isn't true, at least in my experience.

You just can't help yourself. Even IF I don't bring up Christianity, you can't stop the bashing and making assumptions. You call Christian's bigoted??? You are the poster child for being bigoted against Christians [you make Bill Maher and Barbara Steisand seem tame in their criticism of all things Christian]. THAT's not a compliment, by the way.

You can not get past the notion that I'm a believer and follower of Jesus Christ. As a result, you allow that to taint any discussion we have, even when it doesn't involve faith, spirituality, Christianity, Jesus, the church, etc.

Gee, based on stuff you've posted here, you apparently are partially gay, because you said you're AC/DC, that you go both ways [ain't none of my business, but you volunteered that once]. I've never mentioned it until now to make a point. My point is, because you've said that about yourself, should I start spouting a bunch of so called stereotypes about gay people? You'd say, that I was being a homophobe and go off on some rant about how bigoted Christians are. Instead, I never do that to you, because I respect you for whom God created you to be.

I may not agree with your lifestyle [and yes I know, you'll say you don't have a choice, but the fact you can go both ways kind of implies you do have a choice - maybe not all gay/lesbians do, but if you can go both ways implies choice], but I've never judged you. Frankly I think you'd be happier if I did bash you, because that would more conveniently fit into the bigoted tiny box you've assigned Christians in "The World according to Billsmith".

It's like someone being black and having folks always bringing up slavery, equal rights, Martin Luther King in any and all discussions with that black person.

I'm sorry you can't get past my being a follower of Christ. You are as much of an evangelist for YOUR beliefs or YOUR unbeliefs as I am of my beliefs. The difference is, I can see and respect you for who you are, you apparently don't have that ability. That's too bad.

Thu, Jul 11, 2013 8:44pm
MikeFromDelaware: You don't know what you're talking about. Maybe it comes from wanting to see the world in terms of only two choices. Christian or atheist (I am neither). Republican or Democrat (I am neither). Conservative or liberal (again neither). Up-down, black-white. Bisexual is a distinct sexual orientation; it's not part anything.

I've been meaning to say that I appreciate that you've stopped writing "Democrat Party." You use "GOP" but Republicans use that themselves. The other terms you favor are pejorative terms used only by people on the right for those who don't see THE TRUTH. Like "Dems" and "Libs." I notice you never say "Reps" or "Cons." You claim to be an "independent" but your phrasing comes from the right exclusively. If you want to take shots at people on the other side, at least be upfront about it.

As I have tried to make clear, what I object to in Christianity is the behavior of too many Christians (and the fact that others condone that behavior). Self-righteousness. Hypocrisy. Spiritual rape (a term credited to a Baptist minister persecuted by Puritans until he was forced out of Massachusetts). A general bullying. Jesus didn't like this behavior in religious people and clerics in his day and he spoke against it. But Christians generally seem to ignore that part of the gospels.

I don't care about your beliefs. I don't believe in belief. Or faith. Or hope. But I don't want to hear about it either. And I don't want it forced on me.

It's amazing how Christians are so intolerant of others, yet can't abide any criticism of any bad behavior in their ranks.

Thu, Jul 11, 2013 10:01pm
billsmith: To the contrary, I want bad behavior within my ranks rooted out. Any pastor that is caught in adultery, homosexuality, gambling, or anything else should be removed from the pulpit.

Also, any Republican not living up to the standard of the party platform should be removed from office, especially if they're convicted of a crime.

So let's put that notion to rest right here. I expect standards.

Fri, Jul 12, 2013 7:02am
Pizza: Sounds like "bad behavior" in your book equals or is limited to sex.

Fri, Jul 12, 2013 7:04am
Nope. Includes stealing and murder too.

Fri, Jul 12, 2013 7:08am
Corporate greed and indifference at work:
Grieving Canadian mother whose son was killed by a train on a badly-signed railway crossing is SUED for $500,000 by heartless rail company for 'damage to the carriages and causing delays'

* The lawsuit seeks damages related to the deceased man's negligence
* This was not the first death at this rail crossing
* Canadian investigators blamed inadequate signage in the collision, it still hasn't been upgraded

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2361435/Grieving-Canadian-mother-sued-heartless-railway-second-anniversary-son-s-death-train-collision.html#ixzz2YpP4FoWl
The company is CN Rail, a crown corporation, which operates coast to coast in Canada and extensively in the US. It also owns the Illinois Central (think "City of New Orleans") and the Wisconsin Central railways.

Mike from Delaware
Fri, Jul 12, 2013 8:18am
Billsmith: Whatever.

Mrpizza: Well said, Amen.

Fri, Jul 12, 2013 9:08am
Pizza/Kavips: But not self righteousness, hypocrisy, right-wing political pronouncements. No one can claim to follow the teachings of Jesus and be a right-winger or tea partier.

MikeFromDelaware: I know I've made my point when you run away. "Truth. You can't handle the truth." No force is responsible for more pain, suffering and pure evil in the world than Christianity. Christianity needs "sheep." People who will blindly do what they are told and not think for themselves. Once you think about it, Christianity falls apart. The same can be said of the gospel according to Rush.

Mike from Delaware
Fri, Jul 12, 2013 10:48am
Billsmith: I'm not running away, but as I've said, in previous messages above [you have selective memory and reading skills - where you only read and remember things that fit YOUR narrow minded view of the world, especially the Christian part]. We don't see the world the same way in terms of faith / religion / Jesus / Christianity, etc, etc. You basically say the same stuff over and over, usually more often than not, in some insulting and inflammatory way rather than using constructive discourse. I say the same stuff over and over in trying to help you see a broader view of Christians and Christianity beyond your bigoted view. Isn't the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result? Well my friend, that's what you and I are doing. You'll never convince me to abandon my faith in my Risen Savior, Jesus Christ, and I'll never convince you to abandon your hatred for most things Christian and to come back to Christ.

Bottom line Bill, we just don't agree, and frankly I'm tired of your Christian bashing. Even when I've tried to discuss a non-religious issue YOU manage to make it a faith/Christian issue and then use that opportunity to rant against those faith/Christian issues, per your usual anti-christian malarky.

So I'm not running away, I'm simply STOPPING that conversation. So you and Mrpizza can continue to "battle" it out. I'm choosing to move on and apparently that means not commenting here, because as long as I post anything here, you'll be sure to make it about those "evil, narrow minded, bigoted, hateful, hypocritical, pain the "neck", stupid, hay seeds who just fell off the pumpkin wagon, unscientific, pointy headed Christians.

I'm still praying for you, and hope that you'll eventually reclaim your Baptismal heritage and come back to being a follower of the Risen Christ. But its time for me to shake the dust this discussion from my sandals. Be at peace.

Fri, Jul 12, 2013 1:21pm
Mike: Well said.

Fri, Jul 12, 2013 3:20pm
Pizza, if there is only one God, then who is Бог? Surely Бог can't exist in your world because there is only one God as you say? Are you saying those who follow Бог are nuts and following a false god? No! Can't be.

And Mike, you made me realize how things have changed over my lifetime, probably due to fast thinking electronics. You said 7/10 11:53 "couldn't you take 5 minutes" and my response to myself was "well maybe 5 seconds, cause that's all I can spare" .. I had to realize that was true. A person, place or thing has under 5 sec to get my attention now before the gatekeeper allows them in for further perusal. I'm not saying it's good or bad, just saying it is. Wonder if, and I don't have 5 sec. to look, if anyone has done cross-generational psychological brain scans to see if there are different areas of enlarged activity because of each generation's different access to immediacy during its formative years.

Secondly, I've noticed a deterioration in my own reliance upon my cognitive skills, with the tools so readily available today. I just look for red underlines. it takes longer to figure out the proper spelling of a big word mentally, than it actually does to right click, scroll, left click. Particularly since cognitively, perhaps like Pizza, I have to sort out which language's spelling I need as well. I guess if the tools I used had all the languages of the world when I hit right click, going cognitive would be faster again.. Lol.

Fri, Jul 12, 2013 3:23pm
Pizza, if there is only one God, then who is Бог? Surely Бог can't exist in your world because there is only one God as you say? Are you saying those who follow Бог are nuts and following a false god? No! Can't be.

And Mike, you made me realize how things have changed over my lifetime, probably due to fast thinking electronics. You said 7/10 11:53 "couldn't you take 5 minutes" and my response to myself was "well maybe 5 seconds, cause that's all I can spare" .. I had to realize that was true. A person, place or thing has under 5 sec to get my attention now before the gatekeeper allows them in for further perusal. I'm not saying it's good or bad, just saying it is. Wonder if, and I don't have 5 sec. to look, if anyone has done cross-generational psychological brain scans to see if there are different areas of enlarged activity because of each generation's different access to immediacy during its formative years.

Secondly, I've noticed a deterioration in my own reliance upon my cognitive skills, with the tools so readily available today. I just look for red underlines. it takes longer to figure out the proper spelling of a big word mentally, than it actually does to right click, scroll, left click. Particularly since cognitively, perhaps like Pizza, I have to sort out which language's spelling I need as well. I guess if the tools I used had all the languages of the world when I hit right click, going cognitive would be faster again.. Lol.

Mike from Delaware
Fri, Jul 12, 2013 6:38pm
Earl grey: Thanks. Welcome back, your thoughts have been missed.

Kavips: I understand, I realized most wouldn\'t take the time to listen, but the difference between Billsmith & the rest of you guys is none of you made assumptions & started bashing it , me, others like me, faith, Christianity, etc. without making any effort to hear some of what was said.

I\'m just tired of his hate, so will not waste anymore time discussing it with him. It is what it is.

So on to a new topic. Have any of you followed the Martin / Zimmerman case? Any thoughts on how you think the jury will decide? I put Rush on for a few monents during lunch & he seemed to think Zimmerman would be found Not Guilty. He quipped that the media wants the verdict Monday rather than today so they can bash the system for a whole week. Also he said the rioters aren\'t in place yet.

Which ever way this case goes hopefully there will be no riots by any group of people.

Fri, Jul 12, 2013 8:26pm
MikeFromDelaware: So, you do listen to Rush? Of course you do. Thank you for coming out of the closet. Holy rollers and Dittoheads. One and the same. Birds of a feather. Burn crosses on Saturday night. Pray in front of crosses on Sunday morning.

You want hate? How about Franklin Graham and the other televangelists and their Muslim bashing?

Fri, Jul 12, 2013 9:44pm
Mike, that's a great topic. I was just coming on to say that with Allen gone, this thread kinda generated into nothing, really. There were so many events going on, and it resorted into a bash fest.

The Zimmerman trial is one newsworthy event. Snowdon, which I thought was not interesting, is now more interesting than ever. The I Hate America Republican House, just tossed the bipartisan Senate bill in the trash, and stripped the hard fought Senate compromise bill of all food stamps. And on the local front the Governor is spinning his direct hit on public education as a positive success. It is if you own millions of dollars, but our state's children as always, will suffer in their quests for increased margins of profit.

As for Zimmerman, and I'm being strictly practical. Since someone put up $1 million for Z's bail, there is probably some extra money being spread around the jury. It's the South for heavens sake; it involves a black man; and it's over guns. That is common sense, nothing else, so I'm betting a hung jury, or acquittal.

Fri, Jul 12, 2013 9:45pm
And welcome back Earl. There is probably some music on links you need to catch up on, just sayin'.....

Fri, Jul 12, 2013 10:01pm
I think the tied is turning and Americans are finally waking up to the fact that the Republican Party doesn't represent any of them anymore. Who do they represent then?... It is hard to say and right now any theory may be considered, but I have recently (past three months) come to the conclusion that they represent the multinational corporations, or big stockholder corporations in general. I guess one could generalize and say they represent the investment world. I think the term Wall Street is too narrow. But I would say they represent the Big money that flows through the system. Locally the Libertarian party and Independent party have stepped up to steal high profile Republicans away from the actual party that is in complete disarray.

I think the biggest mistake the democrats are making is to appear like they tried to work with them as if they really were reasonable people with different opinions. Chamberlain tried that with Hitler if I remember. It doesn't work. I would prefer driving the point on all channels that we have a dysfunctional government and it is because Republicans are breathing something other than air.

In rebuttal to claims that the Democrats are the unreasonable ones, I would point to the Democratic Senate, which has passed a lot of bi-partisan legislation and compare that to the House, which puts it into the trash on delivery, and then stages votes on weird ideological matters that will never clear the Senate and have no importance except to make a certain representative look good to a backer back home just before he asks for money. The Republican House is such a sham, it is embarrassing to even mention the word Republican in public, unless it is followed by 19 expletives!

Mike from Delaware
Fri, Jul 12, 2013 10:32pm
Yep, I listened to about 15 minutes of Rush before changing stations. Definitely does not make me a Dittohead.

Kavips: I hadn't followed the news much this week, but that is an upsetting story that the GOP cut all food stamps , is that correct?

Tell us more about what Markel did or cut from public schools as I'm not sure the details of the story. Sort of surprising a DEM would do that.

Apparently those South American countries aren't good enough for Snowdon as he now is asking Russia for asylum.

There are a couple issues in the Martin/Zimmerman case that make deciding if Zimmerman is guilty, not an easy call. Z did seem to go after Martin, yet it also seems that Martin realized he was being followed & went & confronted Z. That was his fatal mistake, especially with the Fla gun law. Yet on the other hand why didn't Z pull his gun before Martin got that close to let the kid know he was armed so he'd back off. It could be argued Z didn't do that so there could be a confrontation so Z could pop Martin.

I've not listened to or watched any of the coverage this week so I'm no expert on which man was wrong or if Z is guilty, but my gut tells he is. If he had done what the 911 dispatcher had told him to do , Martin would still be alive. Now did the defense present enough reasonable doubt, I guess we'll have to see what the jury does .

Sat, Jul 13, 2013 1:29am
The only problem is that we have only Zimmerman's testimony that Martin wasn't executed in cold blood. That he turned and attacked. More likely that the hunter (Zimmerman) attacked the prey (Martin) first, and Martin if he fought at all, was defending himself from a satanically inspired vicious beast.

In a culture that didn't thirst of killing, Zimmerman would be guilty. The charge is so minor, man slaughter, the verdict would be automatic based on the fact that Martin was dead. Open and shut. Only because of the perverted values those people have in that town, that this occurred at all. Perverted values being that dead blacks aren't important enough to imprison anyone over.

Don't know if you heard of the ridiculous shoot out in Milwaukee between two NRA members carrying conceal and carry permits, up and down Milwaukee's freeways and through their communities, just like in the wild, wild west, only in automobiles instead of horses. Thing is: only because of the defense of Zimmerman which both watched, both thought that they were totally in the right because of a supposed "threat", to have a license to kill. Each thought they would be exonerated and held up as the hero....

Proving the NRA is nothing but a bunch of sissy fools. They said all along, the problem was people not guns. These people would never have had anything to do with each other if they weren't NRA conceal and carry card members...

There may be some good NRA people out there. One or two. :) But the rest have no clue of the difference between reality and fantasy.

Sat, Jul 13, 2013 6:51am
Kavips: You can't judge the entire NRA by the actions of two rogue members anymore than you can judge the New England Patriots by the actions of Aaron Hernandez.

Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:56am
MikeFromDelaware: I see you are posting on other boards and sucking up to station management yet again. John Watson "left leaning?" Compared to whom? Alex Jones? Breitbart? Except for his support for racial preferences, Watson is consistently right-wing. Since you only listen to right-wing talk shows and fundamentalist preachers maybe anything else looks "left-leaning" to you. Or maybe sucking up trumps not bearing false witness.

Radio has made it clear they have no room for progressive viewpoints. And you have made it clear you have a penchant for putting false political labels on people and groups.

Mike from Delaware
Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:59am
Kavips: Mrpizza is correct. Just as we shouldn't judge a group of people by the actions of some from their groups be they NRA, Whites, Blacks, Hispanics, Christians, GLBT, or yes the NE Patriots.

That Florida Law is where the problem is. Any nut with a gun who's got an attitude, can use that defending myself thing as an excuse to take the law into their own hands, which is the sense I get about Zimmerman. The issue for me comes back to the 911 dispatcher [a cop] telling Z to stand down and let the real cops take it from here. THAT is exactly how a Community Watch is supposed to work. We have one in my development. We patrol [no guns, no taser, no knives, only a cell phone]. If we see something suspicious we ARE ONLY ALLOWED to call 911 to report it and give the cops the address, then we are to immediately leave the scene so as to not "spook" the alleged perp before the cops arrive.

Zimmerman clearly didn't do that. Now did he break any laws at that point, possibly. But his blowing off the 911 order to stand down speaks volumes to me that he had an agenda or at least an "attitude". The comment Zimmerman supposedly said [don't know if it was admitted into evidence or not as I've not followed the trial at all this week] supposedly Z said in the 911 call: that the [expletive deleted] always get away, also speaks volumes to me. Thus showing attitude or agenda.

Those two things are what makes my gut feel he's guilty as sin. He may not have attacked Martin [we'll probably never know unless Z publishes a book someday], but some testosterone filled teenage boy of any color, just might think he's the "cock of the walk" and go and confront this guy who's tailing him [these kids think their invincible and see this done over and over again on TV and the movies].

The other thing too is apparently Martin had been smoking some pot prior to this walk to get Skiddles [probably had the munchies]. OK its illegal to use pot, but Martin's not on trial for that [he's already received the death penalty be he guilty or not], but what I'm getting at is that Martin being a tad bit "high" on "Maryjane" may also have clouded Martin's judgment as well. So he may have confronted Z.

That's where if that if Z say the kid approaching him should have pulled his gun and said I've got a gun, stay where you are, we need to talk, I'm not going to hurt you, but need to ask you some questions. That way neither could attack the other. But for some reason they made physical contact and then somehow Z was then able to get his gun and pop Martin. But, on the other hand, if you have an "attitude" of oh no we're not letting another one of those [expletives deleted] get away again, possibly could mean this one is getting collared no matter what, I'm the Lone Ranger.

The sad thing is, none of this should have happened. All Trevon Martin appears to be guilty of was two things: [1] having smoked some pot, [2] walking around a "white" neighborhood while being black. The first might get you some jail time or a stiff fine or forced into a rehab program; the second offense technically isn't a crime, but as Kavips mentioned, this is the South, and in some places down there [even Florida] that second offense could get you killed, apparently.

As much as I dislike Al Sharpton and his constant race bating, so far, I've not heard or seen any evidence in this case to make me think that Sharpton is wrong this time.

The fly in the ointment is the jury. I have no idea who the 6 people are [why only 6 and not the usual 12 - budget cuts??], their sex, color, age, etc. Also all the Defense has to do is plant just enough reasonable doubt that Z didn't do it or the gun went off accidentally, or whatever and Z would walk. Kavips point about Z not being arrested for months after until national protests embarrassed them enough to finally put Z in jail of which as Kavips pointed out someone paid the Million dollar bail also speaks volumes.

That's how I see it, but the jury are the folks who get to make the decision. Hopefully Florida changes that law so another case like this doesn't happen again, where this "I was just defending myself" claim can be used. It's one thing to defend yourself inside your home against an intruder, but something else to go after someone, you with a gun, only because you thought they looked suspicious.

Again, had Zimmerman obeyed the legal orders given to him by the cops none of this would have happened.

Mike from Delaware
Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:16am
Billsmith: Watson is not a conservative other than in defense [military he's prior military by the way] and fighting terrorism. The rest of his views are left leaning. He's not the "black version of Rush or Jensen". He's NOT a Republican, nor is he the Delaware version of Herman Cain.

Funny when I was typing that last night on that other blog, I thought if Billsmith comes here and sees this, he'll post something there or on Allan's blog bashing me for sucking up to Chris Carl and WDEL. You are so predictable, just like Rush.

I've criticized Chris on that blog in the past when I didn't agree with him on some issue, but frankly in my opinion, Mr. Carl has done a great job as PD at WDEL and I'd be a hypocrite to not say so and only say something when I disagree with him.

Mike from Delaware
Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:44am
Kavips: I found the news story about the GOP House cutting Food Stamps. You didn't get it completely correct though. They didn't cut the Food Stamp program, just removed it from the Farm Subsidy bill so they could deal with both as separate issues, which frankly I agree with. The reason the two have been paired together since the mid 1960's is so Urban legislators would support the farm part of the bill and Rural legislators would support the Food Stamp part of the bill. I agree with the GOP on this one, both should be discussed separately and voted on separately. THAT's why so much pork gets passed by lumping them together. THIS has got to stop for all issues, in my opinion. Each issue should get an up or down vote.

From the article it said:

"Republicans, while concerned about the ballooning cost and enrollment in the $80 billion-a-year food stamp program, are not by any means eliminating food stamps by taking it out of the farm bill. They would instead deal with it as a separate bill."

"The farm bill historically has been a vehicle for both billions in farm subsidies and billions in food stamps. Twinning the two massive programs has in the past helped win support from rural-state lawmakers and those representing big cities. But after the bill failed in the House last month amid opposition from rank-and-file Republicans, House leaders removed the food stamp portion in a bid to attract conservative support."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/11/house-republicans-drop-food-stamps-from-massive-farm-bill/#ixzz2YvrXrQfm

Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:27am
MFD: I really appreciate your perspective on the Zimmerman trial. I couldn't have summed it up any better myself, and believe me, I've tried.

Also, I appreciate you defending the GOP on the farm bill issue, as once again, they've been wrongfully accused of "wanting poor people to starve".

I just have one request, however. Please don't compare Bill Smith to Rush Limbaugh. I know Rush is no saint, but don't you find the comparison a bit on the fringes?

Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:41am
Pizza stated earlier that: "You can't judge the entire NRA by the actions of two rogue members anymore than you can judge the New England Patriots by the actions of Aaron Hernandez."

That is true. But if the New England Patriot all tucked themselves in behind Hernandez, claiming he was innocent and paying the bulk of his legal fees, such a criticism would be well founded.

It is with the bogus hate group with the three initials NRA.

Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:53am
MFD a couple of errors in your report on Zimmerman's trial. Minor, but let me bring them up.

One, is there any indication that Martin had smoked weed that day? All I have heard was that in his past, months or years earlier, he had posted a reference to weed. Hell, possibly up to half the staff of Delaware's General Assembly today smokes weed. Weed is as prevalent today, as alcohol was during the Prohibition. Furthermore, it is obvious you have never been around it, because weed does not cause one to provoke a confrontation. Instead it causes the exact opposite, one to mellow out, find the easiest path, and work together, not fight someone. Anyone on weed could not, would not, be in an aggressive spirit. Crack and meth and bath salts are the ones that create mischief.

A person who believes in Jesus and goes to church every Sunday has a 19% greater chance of killing someone than a person who smokes marijuana. That makes Zimmerman's assertion he was attacked, pretty silly.

Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:55am
Hate groups with three initials:

Sat, Jul 13, 2013 12:08pm
Mike I was interested in hearing how the votes of the Farm Bill and the Food Stamp portion were co-joined in the 60's to get urban representatives to vote for the farm bill. I remember hearing that the last non-cojoined bill was in 1973.

I had always heard the two were joined for more practical reasons in that the support for the farmers, now almost all humongous corporate giants, was directly tied to the food stamp program. Which makes more sense? Pay farmers money for the excess crops they have to burn or destroy? Or pay them the same amount to process the food to donate for people who otherwise through no fault of their own, have nothing to eat and must steal to survive?

All but he most cruel individuals, would side with the first over the latter. Republicans are the most cruel individuals.

You may not remember it but the impetus for the food stamp then known as agriculture assistance came about because as masses of people were literally starving in cities around the nation, farmers were slaughtering well fed pigs and burying them under because the price was too low.

Has anyone figured out that if you cut the food stamp program, who is going buy the $110 Billion a years worth of food left sitting on the shelves?

Corporate Agricultural America literally can't live without food stamps.

Sat, Jul 13, 2013 12:52pm
billsmith: You left out MY favorite hate group: TEA

Mike from Delaware
Sat, Jul 13, 2013 2:08pm
Mrpizza: I may not have articulated the thought as clearly as I should have. Where I see a "similarity" between Bill and Rush is both's views and comments are totally predictable [not that their views are the same just that on a given topic, you can pretty much know what Bill will say just as with Rush. Their respective views on life, the world, and faith, etc, are very different, but you know what Bill will say generally and what elRushbo will say generally on his show. That's where the similarities end.

Mike from Delaware
Sat, Jul 13, 2013 2:09pm

Kavips: My knowledge of the drug world is rather limited, but I seem to remember the report way back when, saying that they found traces of pot [the chemical that is found in the blood from pot use] in the autopsy. Now I don't know how long that can linger in a person's blood stream, but assume that like alcohol dissipates as time progresses. So the fact they found some in his blood implies to me that it was recent use.

I've always heard that yes with pot you get mellow vs getting cranked up and hostile - Excellent point. So IF Martin had puffed a joint that evening before going to get Skittles, he may have been really laid back - like far out man. Wow ! Hey man are you Officer Krupkee [or Barney Fife], [as he starts laughing]. Which could easily "torque Zimmerman's jaws" [nothing like some 'snot nosed kid' mocking you and your "authority" to push your buttons which could cause Z to get in the kids face. Who knows maybe Trevon called Z a pig and even oinked at him as he laughed. That would have really pushed Z's buttons. Excellent point.

Just remember even the Devil believes, but being one of his followers is where the difference should be, sadly not all who claim to be really are, thus the 19%. Each day, each of us choose to be his followers or we choose the "worlds" way. Unfortunately that second choice gets picked far too often. As I type this I'm totally aware that I'm pointing a finger at others while 3 more fingers are pointing back at me. So yes, I guess I could be part of the problem on some days. Kind of a sobering thought, when you think about it.

I believe what the GOP is attempting is to make real reforms. So to cut waste, fraud, and abuse [as a way to help cut the deficit] as much as possible its better to look at each program separately. The GOP said it was not their plan to eliminate food stamps. Are there folks getting it who shouldn't? Are there others who need it, but can't get it? I've been blessed and have never needed to get Food Stamps [apparently now its a EBT credit card] so I am not familiar with the details of what the qualifications are to get Food Stamps. However, I'm probably more liberal than many conservatives on this topic as I believe that no one in America should go to bed hunger. Not in a nation that produces the amount of food we do, plus having the wealth we have. Surly there's some way to feed everyone.

My wife volunteers at a Food Closet at one of the Lutheran Churches in the area and these folks are given free food to take home. I've seen the bags of food they get. They are not living like the rich and famous. No one is asking for this food, because they're too lazy to work. Many of these folks are the "working poor". They ARE working, but make just above the limit you can earn and get Food Stamps. Someone like that should be able to get Food Stamps, they aren't sitting home NOT working, they are working, usually a single mom with kids. An other example: an older person who's grandkids moved in with her so her Social Security check isn't enough to feed her and those kids. She got by BEFORE they moved in, but the added cost of electricity, water, food, clothing, etc, etc, changes all that. So they come to the food closet for the meager food that's available there [it beats starving].

Yet there are those, possibly who are NOT working and who are NOT looking for work [not due to medical or physical problems, but just plain laziness]. Those folks I have no problem cutting from the system. They should have to document where they've looked for work that week or month before getting their next Food Stamp payment. THEIR job is to find a job, not just sit at home watching TV all day.

So there is balance. Now as to what truly is in the minds of the GOP, I can't say, but the "Welfare Queen" era needs to end. You get free money, you have to document where you've looked for work, so that it can be checked and verified. The idea is to make it more hassle so some of the "deadbeats" get off their lazy butts and go look for a job. Again this doesn't apply to folks with health issues who truly can not work, but to see some young person in far better physical strength than me sitting around making no effort to find a job and then acting like they are owed that money and how dare we say they should look for a job attitude filling up he/her cart at the super market with far more expensive cuts of meats than I can afford [I've worked full time for the past 43 years] doesn't sit too well either. No one likes being played for the fool, and there are those who are doing just that to you and I. My guess is this is what the GOP/TEA folks want to stop, not the single mom or granny who are trying to feed kids, but the lazy who are playing the system. All I can say is, its about time.

Moving on to the farm bill. I totally agree that it is sinful, in my opinion, for farmers to pour their milk down the drain, bury all those pigs while other folks starve. Yet at the same time, what was happening was the system being out of balance. It was TOO Market Driven so that those farmers were doing all the work, and losing their shirts. No one wanted to help them, so in desperation to get national media attention, thus national political attention, they did all that. It worked. We need a balanced act of combine "Capitalistic / Socialistic" approach to assist the farmers to produce all the food they do [it is truly amazing the crop yields these folks can get] yet keep prices so we can afford to eat and those folks make a decent living for their efforts, yet at the same time not have the government controlling prices [what a tightrope that is to walk]. Thus the Farm Bill. A little bit of Socialism mixed with a bit of Capitalism.

Sat, Jul 13, 2013 5:45pm
MFD: Amen, brother!

Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:58pm
Kavips: If you\'re trying to make the case that you shouldn\'t be a Christian because it allegedly makes you 19% more likely to be a murderer, let me warn you that God will not allow you to use that as an excuse when it comes to the issue of where you\'ll spend eternity.

Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:34pm
Survey question: If George Zimmerman is aquitted in the Trayvon Martin case, will he be reinstated as neighborhood watch volunteer?

Mike from Delaware
Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:03pm
Mrpizza: Interesting question. Technically if acquitted he'd be cleared of all charges. But the fact that he did not follow the cops direct orders might cause the cops to say no to Zimmerman as being a part of the community watch program.

Mike from Delaware
Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:51pm
Just in, Zimmerman found innocent by the jury.

Sun, Jul 14, 2013 1:39am
Well, not exactly innocent. He was found not guilty, which is technically different, meaning that there just wasn't enough evidence to convict him.

I remember when Michael Jackson was prosecuted for child molestation, and I heard a juror interviewed after the verdict. The man said that the jury was sure Jackson had probably done something, but they just weren't able to conclusively prove it.

In both the Jackson and Zimmerman cases, you can't convict somebody of the crime of being stupid.

The question about reinstatement was intended as sort of rhetorical. I doubt seriously that the Sanford police department wants such a publicity nightmare on its hands and I doubt also that Zimmerman himself would want to go back to it anyway. He may, however, need to carry a gun for the rest of his life in order to fend off vigilantes who will certainly be seeking "justice for Trayvon".

Sun, Jul 14, 2013 6:45am
Additionally, it's possible Zimmerman could be found liable for negligence in a civil suit, and there's probably going to be on just as there was in the OJ case. I think there's a good case for negligence based on the probability that he could have avoided the confrontation by obeying the stand down order from the police.

Sun, Jul 14, 2013 12:10pm
Mr. Pizza - the police did not order Mr. Zimmerman to stand down. A 911 dispatcher told him they didn't need him to follow Trayvon. They did ask him where Trayvon was so that they could provide the police who were on their way with his location. I work out of a home office and was able to watch this trial from beginning to end and the verdict was the correct one. The State overreached with the charge and the evidence that was presented in no way proved that Zimmerman had "ill will, malice, hatred" toward Trayvon. That is what they State had to prove for a Second Degree Murder charge. It's not like he got out of his vehicle, gun drawn and chased after him. That would meet the burden of the proof. But that's not what happened. Again, I watched the trial and heard the whole of the 911 tape (several 911 calls actually because a few neighbor's calls were also played) - not just the snippets that the media aired. The State should have charged him with Involuntary Manslaughter. They may have been able to get a conviction on that charge. Anything else was a stretch based on the evidence at hand.

Sun, Jul 14, 2013 12:12pm
There are so many similarities with the OJ case; in fact it is a good study because it is just the opposite; black criminal with black jury; white criminal with white jury. In both cases I believe justice was served. Probably now with hindsight, in both cases a guilty man walked free.

The Justice system worked in both. Two men were found not guilty by a jury of their peers, and in both cases, (added Pizza's observation of Michael Jackson) based on the evidence there was enough reasonable doubt to not convict either person.

Now, were those peers representative of all America? Probably not. Is there overwhelming evidence that both got away with murder? Probably yes. Does the gun law need to be changed? Probably yes. But the court's sole purpose is to determine if the defendant broke the law, not whether he was moral a noble and outstanding young man. Based on the broken law at hand, the court had enough reasonable doubt to say Zimmerman acted within the framework of that existing law, to not be held guilty of manslaughter. Remember, that was the sole reason that law was proposed and passed overwhelmingly by Republicans over the objections of Democrats in that state, for this very reason: so one could get off if one shot another and could make a reasonable defense that one was afraid.

Put bluntly, if we had a law here that said is was perfectly legal to kill any suspected member of the Republican Party, then one could kill all of them with impunity and not break the law. That's exactly what happened to Jews in Germany.

So in that narrow context, the jury did what it had to do.

This is just one more piece of evidence that the secret to wiping evil off the face of this earth, is to eradicate the Republican Party out of existence. No religious person can ever be a Republican without being a total hypocrite. None. if you don't "get it" in this life, God will explain it to you better than me in the next one. He tried to tell you through the Gospel's, but some people just don't hear.

Sun, Jul 14, 2013 5:23pm
Kavips: Nice feeble attempt to blame everything on the Republicans. As usual, Democrats have nothing original so they have to win through character assassination of their opponents.

Gabby: Nice to hear from you and thanks for enduring the torture of watching the entire trial. My gut also is that the manslaughter charge could have stuck had they actually used it in the first place. To me, presenting it as an alternative at the end because they were losing on the murder charge is a backhanded attempt at double jeopardy.

Of course, civil trials are a whole different ball game, and it will be interesting to see if they win a civil suit the same way they did with OJ.

Mon, Jul 15, 2013 6:45am
Welcome back, Allan Loudell!

Mon, Jul 15, 2013 8:21pm
Pizza, only it wasn't too feeble. Those charges stick solid like gorilla glue, as proven by everyone's lack of attempt to peel them off.

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