WDEL Blog: Allan Loudell

Zimmerman trial verdict

I happened to spend part of last week in Quebec, and could watch both Canadian and U.S. all-news channels in our hotel room from Quebec City (although in the case of the U.S., only CNN and the over-the-air U.S. networks, not MS NBC nor Fox).

Each country had its big story which utterly dominated the news, often to the exclusion of most other stories. For Canada, it was of course the Lac-Megantic railway disaster. For the U.S., it was obviously the George Zimmerman trial.

You'll note - until now - I've not posted a single blog on the Zimmerman trial. The reason is simple. I simply resist following ANY trial; I think the national news channels devote far too much attention to trials of all kinds, whether of celebrities, or of non-celebrities involved in peculiar circumstances (usually involving sex or murder, or some combination of the two), or - as in this case - a local tragedy transformed into a national story because of the racial dimensions.

Bluntly, I'm far more concerned about the far greater human toll from a frightening war with Iran; natural disasters; famine; etc. Or, here in Delaware, education & the economy.

But, of course, in the "real" world, nearly everyone has a strong opinion about these trials.

For me, the outcome was almost pre-ordained: "Stand Your Ground". Strike down that law and you likely would have gotten a much different outcome. (Even if neither side explicitly cited "Stand Your Ground", surely SYG has affected the psychology in the Sunshine State.)

And let's not forget the obvious: The racial composition of the jury matters immensely.

Posted at 8:24am on July 15, 2013 by Allan Loudell

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Comments on this post:

Mike from Delaware
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 10:58am
Allan, Welcome back.

We've been discussing the trial on the Open Forum, at the bottom of the thread.

I guess two big questions, I believe are still in the air: [1] Will the black communities beyond the one in California, riot [hopefully not]? and [2] Since the NAACP and Al Sharpton are calling for the Justice Department to launch a racial-prejudice civil trial against Zimmerman, this story will continue to be a longer lasting event. Which could bring up a third question: What happens IF the Justice Department says NO to such a civil trial [Would there then be riots?]; or if that trial is held and Zimmerman again is not found guilty [Would there then be riots?]

In one sense, there's a bigger issue involved that never gets discussed, why does our society tolerate these threats of riots if a certain group [more often than not, from the black community] riots if members of that community don't get the result they want? I think back on Rodney King, and the riots where that truck-driver was pulled from his truck and beaten almost to death, yet no one was prosecuted. From where I sit, those threats are an act of terrorism and should not be tolerated any more than other acts of terrorism.

This becomes a bigger issue later when black community leaders whine about the lack of stores, etc., in their communities. Really, why would a businessman or woman of any color [other than black] want to invest in such a community where the people there might later decide to burn down that place of business in a riot, because the owner is not black?

This sort of thing the mainstream media never bring up, nor do the black leaders like Al Sharpton and the NAACP.

Mon, Jul 15, 2013 11:42am
I think Mike, you have hit on exactly why such controversial trials are important. They result in property damage. Just curious... were you around for the Wilmington riots after MLK's shooting? (Now that I think on it you were in the military service, right?)

For some reason, Wilmington was the worst hit city in the nation, with the longest consequences. It would be cheaper - and I hope Mayor Dennis Williams is listening - to organize a gathering, then offer to bus all those who want to argue for proper justice, to the exact location where it would do the most good.

Sanford, Florida. I think if suddenly 100,000, 200,000, 300,000 of well-behaved blacks descended upon the tiny town of Sanford Florida, that perhaps those people living in their pretend world of 100 years ago might just rethink their entire life's philosophy with a different reality being presented to them on their doorstep. Instead of being the "overseers", they would feel what it is like to be the imprisoned ones. Having rioting in ghettos across America would only reinforce their idea that blacks were dangerous and out-of-control. Rioting at home does no good. Take it to where it can really make a difference: Sanford, Florida.

Scaring the pants of the basest of life-forms, Republicans, would do a lot to eradicate the idiocy that supports ideas that have no place in the modern world, such as being allowed to shoot a black person and go free because he's black. It is time even the basest of life forms accept that blacks were created equally by the same God that also created Republicans.

Mon, Jul 15, 2013 12:48pm
According to the FBI of this administration, the "white Hispanic" (as CNN labelled Zimmerman) was not/is not a racist... the person who attacked & violently beat Zim (after calling him a creepy-ass cracker) however seemed guilty of a hate-crime.

Why has the Obama admin and his DOJ declared a war on Hispanics by further threats of prosecuting Zimmerman? Police said he was innocent (and the police chief was fired), a jury has declared him innocent, even the FBI of this admin has declared no racism, and yet he is still deemed guilty?

The guy defended himself after being beaten to an inch of his life (Should he have backed off following Trayvon? Probably...but was it okay for Martin to try to kill him for that?..No)

Zimmerman's life is pretty much over...the new Black Panthers wanted to kill him pre-trial (and had an actual bounty on his head), Spike Lee (also pre-trial) tweeted out what he thought was Zimmerman's home address and terrified an old retired couple when mobs arrived at their door and their phones rang off the hook with death threats, and now Al Sharpton continues to stir up hate...

Mike from Delaware
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 1:47pm
Kavips and EarlGrey: Both point out the real problem, extremism on both sides. Would Al Sharpton be so upset if Zimmerman had been black and Martin been a hispanic or a white? Based on other crimes and the lack of response from Mr. Sharpton in those cases, the answer is no, he'd not be upset. He'd carry a lot more credibility if he, like MLK, cares about equal rights for ALL Americans.

I guess from CNN's point-of-view, if Zimmerman had been a "black Hispanic" that would have made it OK apparently.

I don't agree that busing 300K black's to Sanford would serve a useful purpose other than to possibly start a riot there. The black community needs to accept the decision of the jury, just as white Americans had to accept the decision of the jury with OJ. Note, whites didn't riot, yet most whites, according to surveys and polls done at the time, believed OJ to be guilty.

Even though I believed Zimmerman to be guilty of killing Martin, I wasn't in court and didn't hear the evidence presented, so I have to defer to the jury who did and had the job to make that decision. It's how our judicial system works. Also, that Florida law throws a monkey wrench into all of this; now that law probably should be eliminated or modified.

Zimmerman's life is pretty much over, and those Black Panthers show the extremes, and that is wrong and is just as wrong as if the KKK made threats against Martin and his family. It works both ways. Both extremists, like the Black Panthers and the KKK, want to take the law into their own hands; both are wrong.

Martin - if he were still alive - should not get a free pass calling Zimmerman a creepy-assed cracker; that is a racist statement. That's the other issue that gets totally ignored. If Zimmerman called Martin a punk-assed black boy [no N word] that would be considered to be racist, yet it's OK for Martin to call Zimmerman a creepy-assed cracker??? Talk about the ole double-standard of Political Correctness. It's this sort of stuff that keeps the races from working things out. One group can say anything it wants and the other must walk on a tight rope for fear of offending the other group.

It's past time to end all this crap. Until we do, our nation will never be the place it could or should be.

Mon, Jul 15, 2013 3:05pm
Earl. Do you have a link to the FBI report? I'd be interested to see that.

And Earl: You are accepting Zimmerman's interpretation of events flat-out without allowing for the fact that he was in a perfect position (4 hours) to lie and fabricate all that evidence before being escorted into the police station. Truth is, he had Trayvon kneel on the wet grass and stuck a pistol to his side and while he was holding the hoodie clenched in one hand, he pulled the trigger to shut Trayvon's cries for help before residents came out to witness what he was doing. Your story is a fabrication invented by the defense.

Earl. Answer to your next question: The fact that the murder of Trayvon took place in a white cracker-town and did not violate the white-cracker (substitute the word Republican) laws of that white-cracker community does not mean those same principles apply under a normal, more reasonable Federal interpretation of the Constitution. If we went with the white-cracker interpretation of the law, which, of course, white-crackers can make up themselves even if it goes directly against God's law itself, slaves would still hand-pick cotton on plantations and be sold at will to the highest buyer...

Your opinion, and that of every other single prejudiced Republican, is dead wrong here. If horribly misguided terrible degenerate people convene to make horribly misguided terrible degenerate laws as Republicans tend to do (see Greg Lavelle for local evidence), then it is the direct responsibility of the entire rest of the country to insist that those perverted values DO NOT represent the values of the nation at-large. The Federal Government has no choice but then to step in, even with a heavy hand if necessary, and right the wrongs and imprison those responsible for passing them. It is what is required by both God and government.

For here is what you forgot: Your hero had a history of violent hatred of blacks. Period. 'A good black is a dead black', he is alleged to have said. Two, your hero LOVES to beat up helpless people. He beat up his wife.. He beat up a cop who was unarmed. Some hero you have. Don't forget the words he said upon his 911 call. There is no doubt that he wanted a trophy and since no one was looking, he thought Trayvon was it. He executed Trayvon and got away with it.

And if it weren't for the fact that a murderer was let go scot free to murder more blacks starting today, it would be hilarious that white-cracker was made out to be a violent racist remark. My babies eat white crackers (they are called saltines) with peanut butter on them. Do you eat n----rs with peanut butter on them? There is no comparison.

Thought not.

I might have missed a couple of questions since you asked a lot, so please feel free to ask them again. I'll try to give the other interpretations for them as well.

Mon, Jul 15, 2013 5:21pm
The Zimmerman trial draws a parallel to Seinfeld: It's all about nothing, except maybe for the self-aggrandizement of Al Sharpton and other similar race pimps.

Mon, Jul 15, 2013 5:50pm
I should also ask if Al Sharpton would be upset had it been Herman Cain or Clarence Thomas who had been killed. Personally, I think not.

Mon, Jul 15, 2013 8:17pm
Pizza. not even close. This trial was really about the "stand your ground" law and whether it is constitutional or a ridiculous hold-over of when we actually fought apaches (indians, not helicopters).

It won the first game on its home court. There are 3 more games to go, all of them away.

Mon, Jul 15, 2013 9:29pm
Kavips: It's about that and a whole lot more. It's another attack on the second amendment. If they can get rid of that, then the groundwork is laid for the next Nazi Germany.

Mon, Jul 15, 2013 10:45pm

kavips, above is a link to the FBI's conclusion that Zimmerman wasn't a racist.

This case was hand-picked to help support the "0" admin's efforts in gun control agenda. Problem is...just as 0bama was wrong many years ago about the Boston cops acting stupidly (the cop was right and turned out to be a "top cop" with a stellar career) same with Zimmy...he not only wasn't white he wasn't a racist looking to kill.
Thankfully the jurists in this case did their jobs and listened to the FACTS and the LAW.

If this admin really wants to save the lives of inner-city youth they need to look at CHICAGO and fix the that city's mass killngs.

Looks like the War on Hispanics has begun:

Mon, Jul 15, 2013 11:24pm
kavips: Here's a copy of the actual FBI report on Zimmerman:

Mon, Jul 15, 2013 11:30pm
But Earl, they can't declare war on Hispanics. They're the key to the Democrat party's future, especially the illegal ones. But hopefully, the liberal establishment will shoot themselves in the foot!

Tue, Jul 16, 2013 2:17am
No Mr. Pizza. Not Nazi Germany, but America during the 40'-'60's, is what we'll get when out-of-touch Republicans are completely in power.

Earl thanks for the FBI report.

Tue, Jul 16, 2013 2:34am
Thanks for the FBI report. I think you should have brought up that the FBI report says this....

"The encounter... was ultimately avoidable by ZIMMERMAN if ZIMMERMAN had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to MARTIN as a concerned citizen and initiated dialogue to dispel each parties concern. There was no indication that TRAYVON MARTIN was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter"

The FBI corroborates whose fault it was: Zimmerman's. His goose is so cooked in the civil case. He and his family had better flee to Paraguay while he can. I'd recommend getting the papers in order first. Otherwise we might have two fugitives living in airports at the same time.

Tue, Jul 16, 2013 6:52am
kavips: The Republicans weren't in power from about 1956 up to the Gingrich revolution in 1994, so it was your Democrats, mostly in the south, who denied minorities any sense of equality. In fact, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 would have gone down in flames had Democrats in power at the time not been able to muster enough Republican votes for passage. This is not my opinion. All you have to do is look up the numbers.

Mike from Delaware
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 9:00am
Kavips: I forgot to answer one question you asked me earlier, I was a junior in high school in 1968 when the MLK riot happened in Wilmington. Downtown Wilmington was already in decline as suburanites were more and more choosing to shop in the suburbs with free parking, no meter maids just waiting to give you a ticket [I remember my mom coming home in tears because she got a parking ticket downtown it cost $3.00 this was prior to 1964 as we still lived in Brookside near Newark when that happened]. Midway Shopping Center, Wilmington Merchandise Mart, Prices Corner Shopping Centers, and the Fairfax Shopping Center were the places to go back then [my family hadn't lived in the city since the mid 1950's, but many of my relatives still did in 1968]. I went into the Air Force in 1970 to avoid being drafted into the Army or the Marines and being sent to Viet Nam [yes they were drafting men into the Marines then].

The riots, put the nails into the coffin for Downtown revival as once that happened suburbanites just stopped going downtown other than for court, or government business, unless their job was downtown. The downtown area back then bragged of being Delaware's Largest Shopping Center with over 100 stores in the blocks from Front to 10th, from Walnut to Tatnall Sts. Downtown hasn't ever recovered from the riots of 1968.

Maybe with a younger generation who went to desegregated public schools, so are more comfortable being around blacks and weren't here for the riots, may be who could revive Downtown. My group, especially suburbanites went to mostly white public schools. My high school, Dickinson, had only two blacks[a guy and a girl] while I was there. The girl I'd only see in the hallways, the guy played trombone in the band and as I played in the band [Clarinet/Sax] got to know him and we were friends. Most musicians don't care about skin color as long as the guy can play al la Benny Goodman who was the first white band leader to use black musicians in his band back in the 1930's.

I've often wondered, years later, how uncomfortable it must have been for Ron and the girl [didn't know her name we didn't have any classes together] felt being the ONLY blacks in an all white school. I know I'd have been very uncomfortable being one of two whites in an all black school. As far as I know, there was never any trouble for those guys, but the girl seemed to keep to herself. Ron fit right in to the band and he and I both liked Jazz so we had even more in common. So his experience, being a musician in the band, may have made his experience in high school a lot better than the girl's.

The only positive thing deseg schools did [didn't improve education for either white or black at all] was to help lower the fear of the other guy syndrome [blacks about whites, and whites about blacks] as they spent 12 years with each other in school and got to see both good and bad and hopefully were able to realize that both sides have good people, just as both sides have bad people and neither side should be judged solely by the bad folks in either group. So hopefully maybe as my kids generation become the leaders our nation can somehow move past all this hate by both sides.

Until both sides learn that we are all in the same boat and until we start working together rowing in the same direction our collective boat is going nowhere.

THAT was Martin Luther King's dream, and what made him a great man and American. Unfortunately Al Sharpton's is different fromm Rev. King's and is why I see Sharpton as part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Tue, Jul 16, 2013 9:51am
"The encounter... was ultimately avoidable by ZIMMERMAN if ZIMMERMAN had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to MARTIN as a concerned citizen and initiated dialogue to dispel each parties concern. There was no indication that TRAYVON MARTIN was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter"

Only one broke the law...it wasn't Zimmerman.
Yes, I think Zimmerman probably should have stayed in his car...but he didn't break any laws and he didn't attack Trayvon. He thought he was about to die so he used the one tool he had available to survive.
I have personally known enough "Trayvons" from Detroit and some of them have died the same way as Trayvon (messed with the wrong person and paid the ultimate price) but they were killed by someone of their own race and no headlines were made. Some of these kids have decided to turn their backs on the "thug-lifestyle" and found Christ, gotten an education, found new "positive" friends, and gotten out of the "hood".
Trayvon wasn't a real thug but judging from his Facebook and tweets he wanted to be. I really feel sorry for his family and hope his friends learn from this horrible event. Rioting and looting solve nothing, it only turns up the hate.

Mike from Delaware
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 12:14pm
From that FBI report: " Shrino believed that Zimmerman'sactions were not based on Martin's skin color rather based on his attire, the total circumstances of the encounter and the previous burglary suspects in the community. Serino explained to agents that local gangs, referred to in the community as "Goons", typically dressed in black and wore hoodies."

So it would appear that NO Zimmerman wasn't racially motivated, but based on his previous experiences and of that community where gang members wore such clothing, made a poor assumption that Martin was a gang member, thus looking suspicious.

EarlGrey offers some good insight as he apparently lived in Detroit and had some experiences with some young "Trayvons". Most folks tend to be leary of any young man walking around in "ghetto attire" be they white, black, or Hispanic". The attire says gangta, or trouble maker, or hoodlum to most folks who aren't of the ghetto "culture". Even Chris Rock did a stand up routine where he talked about this sort of thing. Seems I remember Jesse Jackson once saying how he got nervous when approaching some "ghetto looking" black male on the street. He wasn't bashed by the black community, why are the rest of us held to a higher standard than Jackson? If he's fearful then how do you expect the rest of us to be?

Maybe its time for the black youth culture to start changing its image and quit trying to look like jailhouse material and start looking like men dressed for success, not failure. It is true, people do judge others based on how they look. A well dressed black male is rarely feared by most whites, but a "ghetto looking" male of any color is feared by most people of any color. Appearance does make a difference.

Unfortunately, the angry black mobs will not want to hear that, but that is the truth.

Does that mean Trayvon Martin should have been persued by Zimmerman? No, Zim should have followed police directions, but as EarlGrey pointed out, Zim didn't violate any laws, but did act in a stupid manner that ended up causing a kid to lose his life. He should have been tried for involuntary manslauter, my guess is he'd be in jail now if that had been the case. The Prosecution over reached and failed.

Tue, Jul 16, 2013 1:22pm
Mike: Just to clarify...I have only "lived" in Detroit for weeks at a time. I have been involved in urban-missions work there for over 15 years and have quite a few good friends in Deetroit as well.

...the reason Trayvon lost his life is because he violently attacked George, not because George got out of his car. I agree Zimmerman should have stayed in his car and I'm sure he wishes more than anything he had as well.

Mike from Delaware
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 1:26pm
EarlGrey: Thanks for the clarification.

Second sentence: Sad, but true.

Tue, Jul 16, 2013 5:16pm
"The reason Trayvon lost his life is because he violently attacked George"

Any evidence to support this? Except for what the killer said? I say that Zimmerman got out of the car, attacked the kid, then when he got his ass handed to him, he shot him. Who knows?

Zimmerman would have been smart to plead guilty to manslaughter. He would have served a couple of years, then gotten out and been OK. As it is now, he will be lucky to live 6 months. Someone is going to kill him, and claim self-defense.

Mike from Delaware
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 11:26pm
If Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car Martin would most likely still be alive, but Zimmerman did not break any laws as Florida has that stand your ground law. The jury found him not guilty. That is the bottom line. Whether or not we agree with the jury or not really doesn't matter.

Wed, Jul 17, 2013 10:15am
"Any evidence to support this? Except for what the killer said? I say that Zimmerman got out of the car, attacked the kid, then when he got his ass handed to him, he shot him. Who knows?"

dunmore: Evidence in the case showed Zimmy's cracked head and broken nose but his knuckles weren't bruised/cut...Trayvon's knuckles however were clearly used on Zim's head. The jury saw all this evidence and heard from the one eye-witness who saw the beatdown.

Wed, Jul 17, 2013 12:32pm
"Evidence in the case showed Zimmy's cracked head and broken nose but his knuckles weren't bruised/cut...Trayvon's knuckles however were clearly used on Zim's head."

As I said, this is consistent with Zimmerman attacking the kid, biting off more than he could chew, and then killing him.

Eyewitness? The one who couldn't tell who was on top during the fight?

If this case shows one thing, it is that the Florida SYG laws are absurd invitations to kill. Zimmerman could claim that he was giving the kid mass and no one can dispute it.

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