Rand Paul vs. Chris Christie: Back-and-forth dust-ups entertaining, but revealing
Have you been following the rhetorical battle between Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) and Governor Chris Christie (R-NJ)?
Whether on national security surveillance or most recently, on what proportion of taxes states get back from Washington, these guys are tackling weighty issues in a most entertaining way.
Let's review the latest rounds:
Governor Christie blasts Senator Paul for drawing pork barrel spending to his home state of Kentucky while voting against aid for victims of Hurricane Sandy in New Jersey and elsewhere in the Northeast. Rand Paul says he's not against emergency relief, per se, but wants it distributed on a year-to-year basis. He also wants to cut foreign aid to offset that spending.
Said Rand Paul on CNN, referring to Christie: "This is the king of bacon talking about bacon. Is Governor Christie recommending we shut down our military bases?"
Then came Paul's ultimate blast to Christie: "Governor Christie and others have been part of this gimme, gimme, gimme -- gimme all this money."
Christie responded with this bomb: "I find it interesting that Senator Paul is accusing us of having a 'gimme, gimme, gimme' attitude toward Federal spending when, in fact, New Jersey is a donor state; we get 61 cents on every dollar we send to Washington... And interestingly, Kentucky gets $1.51 on every dollar they send to Washington.
So if Senator Paul wants to start looking at where he is going to cut spending to afford defense, maybe he should start looking at cutting the pork-barrel spending he brings home to Kentucky at a $1.51 on every dollar and not look at New Jersey where we get 61 cents for every dollar. Maybe Senator Paul could deal with that when he is trying to deal with the reduction of spending on the Federal side, but I doubt he would because most Washington politicians only care about bringing home the bacon so they can get re-elected..."
Of course, last week, Christie assailed Paul by suggesting libertarians support dangerous policies when it comes to national security.
Here's a delightful column from a conservative-leaning columnist/blogger in The WASHINGTON POST, including video of Governor Christie's response to Senator Rand Paul...
(Be sure to read the "comments" after the above column.)
Christie raises an issue that has come up before: Some of the most conservative members of Congress ironically represent regions and states that take in more from the Federal purse than they contribute. Conversely, some of the most affluent states - which contribute far more to Uncle Sam's account than they receive - happen to be far more supportive of the Federal government.
But that, paradoxically, is Christie's problem -- assuming he seeks the 2016 Republican Presidential nomination. That point about which states get back more than they contribute is - more often than not - a Democratic argument rather than a Republican one. In short, not a Republican crowd-pleaser for Christie... were he campaigning in Iowa, New Hampshire, or South Carolina.
Posted at 8:08am on July 31, 2013 by Allan Loudell
WOW!!!! Hearing a Republican make a typically Democrat argument like that... just, wow! And a politician who can actually back up his claims with facts. And not made up ones... real facts! Good for him.
I'll say it again... if Republicans want to take back the White House, someone like Christie is the way to go. But it'll never happen. He'll go the Mike Castle route... get labelled a RINO, then primaried out to an extremist nutjob like Paul or Cruz. So the extreme right can once again win their battle but lose the war.
Clinton vs. Christie? Too close to call.
Clinton vs. Paul? Heck, even John McCain isn't sure he can vote for Random Paul.
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 3:55pm
I agree with Shawn. Christie speaks the truth, that the truth sure isn't good for Conservatism. Conservatism is built entirely on a fantasy, a fantasy that says if you close your eyes, don't believe anyone else but me, always vote for what I say and not what I do, everything will work out right for me; as for you, well, you my friend, are on your own. it's the conservative way. Just vote for me, ok?
it always amazes me how suckers who used to throw their money at PT Barnmum's sideshows, now donate to Republicans.
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 8:34pm
Christie is a sellout. He ran for governor on the pretense of conservatism and then when the opportunity arose kissed-up to the dictator Obama.
I hope Rand Paul cleans his clock.
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 10:10pm
Republicans need to finally pick a decent contender this time...
Christie is probably as Republican as one can be in New Jersey, but for the rest of the country, that's not really a true Republican and not very different from Hillary or her policies.
Rand on the other hand is a bit too Libertarian (as Christie said) to beat Hillary.
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 11:06pm
Conservatism is built entirely on a fantasy, a fantasy that says if you close your eyes, don't believe anyone else but me, always vote for what I say and not what I do, everything will work out right for me; as for you, well, you my friend, are on your own.
Your definition of Conservatism sounds more like the fantasy of Hope, Change, and WTF (winning the future).
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 3:49am
Earl, the only problem is that Republicans don't need a really true Republican who can win Oklahoma. What they need is someone who can win Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, Iowa, Colorado, Virginia, and North Carolina. Christie works well in five of those states.
Mike from Delaware
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 8:24am
I'd pick Christie over Paul. Christie is a moderate Republican. He's for common sense government, and for market driven solutions where appropriate and for government help where appropriate like Hurricane Sandy. So he's not a big government liberal, yet he's not some libertarian that wants to return the nation to 1787 which as interesting as that would be to do [I don't know about those powered wigs, the lacy clothes, or outhouses] just isn't realistic. Our world is very different from 1787, so there are things that the government today needs to do that wasn't an issue back when Philadelphia was the capital of the newly created USA.
Interestly they did have abortions back then. The legal cut off, from what I've read, was when you could hear the baby's heart beating. Prior to that was OK to abort, they didn't consider it to be a life prior to that.
Weapons of mass destruction in 1787 was a cannon ball vs nuke weapons. Automatic rifle or their version of the M-16 or the AK-47 fired one shot at a time and had to be reloaded and primed each time.
Ceasar Rodney's 60 mile trip from Dover to Philly to cast his vote was a difficult trip that took a couple of days to do, vs the approx 1 hour drive [barring traffic gridlock] today.
Ben Franklin was experimenting with electricity by flying a kite. Communication was by mail delievered by his newly created US Postal Service, and by the local news paper.
World travel was by a clipper ship with sails made out of wood that took many days to complete vs jet travel today that takes hours [after you finally get on the plane and leave the tarmac].
Healthcare then was your local saw bones who'd take payment in eggs or a chicken vs to today's high tech medical world that costs tons of actual money.
Yes a very different time indeed.
So I'd pick Chris Christie easily over the behind the times Rand Paul.
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 9:26am
kavips: There is no way that Hillary would lose to someone like Christie in Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, Iowa, or Virginia.
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 11:19am
Mike: Neither you nor I want to return society back hundreds of thousands of years (though that Garden in Eden sure sounds like a nice place) because we are Christians and believe in & live by the laws/guides of God the Creator listed in the Bible... in the same way Tea Partiers are not trying to go back into the 1700s but want to live by the laws/guides written in our 300+ year old Constitution by the Founders of our country.
If we disregard the Bible, are we Christians?... And if we disregard the Constitution are we still a Republic? No..and No.
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 11:58am
Earl: Mike's comments aren't an effort to disregard the Constitution. They're to say that we live in a vastly different time than the Founding Fathers could have possibly imagined when they wrote it. Sticking to the letter of the law of the Constitution is a fool's errand, because it was written for the time they lived. They gave us the ability to modify the Constitution as the times changed.
"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."
-- Thomas Jefferson
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 12:55pm
Earl, in response to this: There is no way that Hillary would lose to someone like Christie in Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, Iowa, or Virginia....
Yes there is:
Mike from Delaware
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 1:18pm
Shawn and EarlGrey: Thanks Shawn for correctly explaining my point. I couldn't have said it better, thanks !
Good quote from Jefferson.
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 1:35pm
Shawn: Thank you...your explanation was well-written and helpful. I read Mike's original post differently but after a re-read, I mostly agree with both you and Mike on his post. And, nice Jefferson quote.
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 5:55pm
Do either one of these guys know when Elvis's birthday is?
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