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WDEL Blog: Allan Loudell

Revelation: The Obama Administration realized most Americans with individual health insurance would get cancellation notices

The latest daunting political problem for the Obama Administration as the Obamacare rollout proceeds:

President Obama has assured Americans for four years that their individual health-insurance plans would be "grandfathered" so they wouldn't change under the President's health-care overhaul.

Yet, the Internal Revenue Service noted more than three years ago that 40 to 67% of those policies would give up their protected status.

And sources involved with the planning for the Affordable Care Act corroborated this for NBC News, adding that up to 80% if these folks could be affected.

The Administration conceded for the first time Monday that many existing plans don't meet the Affordable Care Act's minimum standards... so goodbye!

The political problem for the Administration: How many of these affected people are young adults - the healthy young folks who NEED to be in the insurance pool for Obamacare to work - who generally trend Democratic and pro-Obama, but never thought the President's health-care overhaul would adversely affect them?


From NBC News---

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/29/21222195-obama-administration-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance?lite


But before everyone piles on Obamacare, the fact-checking website, Politifact, tries to put recent assertions about the Affordable Care Act in context...


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/oct/25/more-misinformation-about-health-care/

Posted at 7:45am on October 29, 2013 by Allan Loudell

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Comments on this post:

kavips
Tue, Oct 29, 2013 8:03am
One must be very clear from the outset that the reason these plans were being dropped is that they don't meet the minimum standard of insurance now required to be provided.

The realization is coming upon all these young people that up to now, for commercial insurance, they'd been paying all that money for nothing....

They paid insurance, but upon going to the hospital, found all their costs were out-of-pocket anyways... So they were paying for insurance, and for the entire cost of their medical care. A double-whammy, if they ever used it...

Now, they are paying for the insurance and they will get benefit out of it, because under the guidelines of the insurance industry itself (the people who wrote this bill), that was the minimum coverage THEY thought was the absolute minimum that should be had....

I guess one can equate the sticker-shock to that for buying a house.... I remember the first time I saw what would be paid out at the end of 30 years...

I did it anyway.

Mike from Delaware
Tue, Oct 29, 2013 8:34am
Kavips: Even very liberal NBC/MSNBC realizes Obama and the gang lied, and lied big time. There's an issue... why should every plan have to meet the Obama standard? If those folks were happy with their health-care plan, why mess with that?

If they weren't, then THOSE folks could go to the Obama Exchanges and pay more for all the freebies [free birth control pills, free abortions, required annual physicals, free pap smears, free mamograms, etc., etc.), that are now driving all of our health insurance premiums up in 2014.

NBC's point is Obama KNEW three years ago, and stood there and lied to the American public, kind of like Clinton did when he said, 'I did not have sex with that woman.' At least, in Clinton's case, you might excuse him as he was probably very afraid of Hillary - heh, heh - but this is very different with Barry Obama. This is a serious lie.

So as any defense lawyer would then ask the person on the witness stand, so if you lied to us about this, what else have you lied to us about? I really hate to quote the so-called Rev. Jeriamiah Wright, "Obama's chickens are coming home to roost".

Benghazi [CBS's "60 Minutes" reveals much about that travesty; if you missed it, listen to WDEL's podcast], NSA spying on almost everyone around the world - a new lesson in how to lose friends and tick off a lot of people even better than Bush Jr. did [kind of does make one miss Bush Jr. a little] - and telling bold-faced lies to the American public as Obama and the gang sold the nation a bill of goods about how folks would NOT be screwed by Obamacare, and the list just keeps growing.

Hey it's gotta be pretty bad when even the VERY LIBERAL NBC/MSNBC is taking shots at Obama.

Things are looking up for the G.O.P./TEA folks. Golly, maybe for once the DEMS will self-distruct rather than the Republicans, who usually shoot themselves in the foot.

If the G.O.P./TEA folks are smart and don't do any other stupid stuff [like shutting down the government, etc.], 2014 could be a very intersting Congressional election, ASSUMING the public doesn't forget.

Then the bigger question, can Hillary weather all this and make a serious run for her dream job, the first woman Prez of the U.S.? Will the nation, after 8 years of apparent lies and other crap from Obama and the gang, vote for another 4 with Hillary?

Of course, the G.O.P. needs to be smart and not scare-off the voters with some far right-winger like Cruz or a Santorum; rather a more populist candidate like Christie could bring the White House and possibly Congress back to G.O.P. control again.

I believe we need a national health-care plan, but there was no reason to take existing plans that people were happy with and destroy them. This is the stuff that makes folks agree with Ronald Reagan when he famously said: "Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

EarlGrey
Tue, Oct 29, 2013 9:39am
They can spin this all they want...but this president repeatedly, repetitively, several, many, many times told us ad nauseum (as he sold his snake-oil insurance tax) that we could keep our plan if we liked our plan. Lying Liars from Liarville (aka D.C.)

aron
Tue, Oct 29, 2013 4:13pm
Kavips, did you read the NBC article? One of the insurance experts who had a "Cadillac" policy was told his policy is being cancelled & the new policy has a 66% higher premium. All the insurance companies are taking steps to protect their business profits by increasing everyone's premiums & deductibles. And PolitiFact just damaged its rep by ruling "mostly false" on those statements by proclaiming new policies will give people "better coverage". We have been lied to & manipulated by the very people we trusted & voted into office. We are the fools.

kavips
Tue, Oct 29, 2013 4:30pm
Mike... It appears you aren't up to speed on the issue ... It makes no difference if NBC News, or CBS News is reporting this issue... Just in case there are others who are as confused as you seem to be, let me explain the difference one more time....

You've probably heard the tapes. "If you like your insurance you can keep your insurance...."

Obviously, unless the private insurers turn it off. The government is certainly not making you have to switch your insurance. Your crooked insurance executives are....

So how can you blame Obama for what private insurers are doing?

When businesses had to provide medical insurance to their employees, we shopped around. We settled for an Aetna (biggest crooks) commercial policy which would provide health insurance to all our employees. All I was required to prove, was that every employee was offered the health plan and that every employee then signed a paper saying they refused to get health insurance, or else they signed up for a plan.

To those who signed up for the plan, I paid 20 dollars a week, and deducted 15 from their checks....

Done deal. Until my best employee, the one I could ill afford to lose, went to the hospital for melanoma. The insurance provided coverage only on 20% of the cost on bills over $10,000. For this, they were paying $780 a year and I was paying $1040.

The insurance was collecting all of that with very little chance of ever paying out one single penny. Meanwhile I lost $1040 for absolutely nothing, and my employee pissed away 3% of his/her income...

It is nothing but a racket... These are the types of insurers who are letting their people go... They are saying... Sorry, I may have to finally pay a claim, so I'm dropping you, goodbye..."

Mike, the problem is private insurers. Crooks in the insurance industry. The same people who deny paying their legal obligations until the end of the quarter, so they get their bonus. The same people who routinely turn-down claims until the fourth time it gets turned into them; the same people who do not approve the going forward of a procedure, until their cash flow allows them to do so and still bonus...

These are the people cutting coverage... One could say, Obamacare is forcing them to. One should say, Republican care is forcing them too, for that is the genesis of Obama care as you well know... The Heritage Foundation is forcing you to lose your insurance!.... Obamacare was after all, their idea...

So, your argument has the moral equivalency of complaining one now has to pay for a security guard, boo hoo hoo, because the police busted the Mafia who would not bust apart your shop, if you paid them their fee of $100.

EarlGrey
Tue, Oct 29, 2013 6:02pm
aron: Welcome to the discussion/blog. Great first post.
Nice job applying facts, common sense and critical thinking to debate this issue.

Mike from Delaware
Tue, Oct 29, 2013 6:13pm
Aron: Welcome.

Kavips: The problem is people were happy with their existing plan. Those folks & their plan should have been left alone. These old plans are being forced to offer free things they hadn't before, such as free birth-control pills, abortions, free physicals, etc. For those who were happy with their old plans, they should have been able to keep those. The lie is Obama knew this & led folks on; a lie by omission is still a lie.

mrpizza
Tue, Oct 29, 2013 8:08pm
Kavips: In case you don't know, the biggest denier of claims is Medicare. That gives us even more to look forward to.

mrpizza
Tue, Oct 29, 2013 9:03pm
By the way, everybody, the TEA party and right-wing talk radio have been warning you about this for the past four years, and we've been called racist-bigot-don't care about the poor, etc., etc.

Sorry, but we told you so.

kavips
Wed, Oct 30, 2013 12:23am
Pizza. you need a link on your claim that Medicare is the biggest denier of benefits... It appears that in 2009 Aetna denied 6.8% of its claims and in 2010 Medicare denied 4%. We know how everyone pads Medicare, as opposed to private insurers, so we should expect a higher rate of denial with Medicare than with private... but Aetna was higher!

So where is your source?

Furthermore, if you read the NBC article it is plain as day... that all the problems are with Private insurers, such as Highmark, Aetna, BlueCross/Blue Shield, all using the excuse of Obamacare to jack their prices sky high...

Medical costs did not jump 200% in one year? (They dropped in 2012). Why should insurance costs jump 200%? Greed, my friends.. Greed... As stated here often: one can never trust a private insurer who writes his own salary off of whatever he chooses to charge you....

I recommend levying a fine of $400,000 per occurrence on insurance companies for everyone who gets dropped during this switch to Obamacare.

If your insurer still wants to drop you badly enough, let them do so and pay the $400,000 fine.

I would bet as soon as such a bill were to pass the Senate.... all those letters get sent out saying... Uhh, never mind. We aren't dropping anybody...We'll be happy to keep you on our rolls... "

Bottom line, there is really no surprise with Obamacare. The problem is with the website, and as Allan Loudell today reported, back when Medicare Drug Prescriptions came out during the Bush years, there was the same high-demand problem... "I can't get through".....

Likewise in Massachusetts when Romneycare first came out as the Republican Plan, I think only 142 people signed up the first month... However by the end of the enrollment period, everyone was able to get on board with no problem...

The problem here is some people don't want Obamacare to go into effect. (They even shut down the government to try and stop it, remember?) and so they are harping on every little single thing they can find to draw attention away from all the great things it will do. Such as:

Allow Insurance coverage with pre-existing conditions.
Keep Children on their parents insurance until age 26.
Free screenings for colon, skin, and breast cancers.
Free vaccinations.
No one loses their house, ever, because of medical expenses.
Insurance companies now have to reimburse patients, if they charge you too much.
Everyone has to have insurance. Costs may drop for all.
With subsidies, even the destitute can now be insured.
The deficit is coming down because of Obamacare.

And, as long as your insurance company is ethical and honest, and does business on the up and up, if you are happy with your current insurance, you can keep it. The Government is not making you have to switch....

Only those greedy insurance executives are to blame for pulling people's policies... Otherwise why would one charge more, 200% more, when overall medical expenses dropped?

So yeah. It is their fault, and it is always going to be the Tea Party Republican's fault as well, for enabling and encouraging them to drop your policies...

No one with a straight face can rightfully blame either Democrats or Obama for the behavior of the worst excrement of human society: Insurance executives.




kavips
Wed, Oct 30, 2013 12:27am
Aron, welcome. And if you think PolitiFact damaged its reputation, ... you must not be an open minded person.... PolitiFact is not a fan of Obamacare. All other impartial evidence backs up PolitiFact's assertion...

Do you have links that say otherwise?

kavips
Wed, Oct 30, 2013 12:37am
Just going back over this thread I am reminded of something Jesus said about taking the plank out of your own eye before removing the speck from the eye of your brother...

I'm rather surprised that even with the facts all of you sight, you own blindness prevented you from seeing that greed on the part of insurance executives is the sole reason for these droppings of policies... It is as if you are so blinded with hatred for Obama, that you just can't stand for this to succeed....

Even the numbers you quote, 66% increase don't seem to give you a clue as to what this is about. This is exactly why we need competition in the health insurance business. No more monopolies setting prices. They have to compete with the government now, and that is a good thing for all.

Imagine if there was no U.S. Post Office and all that was left was Fed Ex who charged $14.95 to send a letter.....

That is what Health-care was... before Obamacare....

So take out your planks. Realize that the problem is not Obamacare. IT is you. You are the problem. It is you who are blinded by this big bold plank... sticking right out of both your eyes!...

Obamacare is great!

http://www.kiplinger.com/article/insurance/T027-C000-S001-health-care-premiums-could-drop-for-older-adults.html

Mike from Delaware
Wed, Oct 30, 2013 8:26am
A friend shared this video with me, and I'm sharing it with you.

As you all know, I'm not a fan of Ted Cruz, after his shutting-down-the-government stunt, BUT maybe he was right. The media sure kept this aspect of Obamacare VERY quiet.

You know, maybe Ted Cruz was correct in wanting to shut down the government.

Penalize the legal American worker so no employer would want to hire him/her, in fact have a very large incentive to lay off that worker; but make it almost irresistible for those employers to replace legal Americans and hire illegals. ONLY in America could such stupid and incompetent people get elected. Even the loyal DEMS here, probably will be upset after watching the video. You only need to watch the first 8 minutes of the video to get Ted Cruz's point.

Why wasn't THIS reported on CBS ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoWlJ77pMyg

kavips
Wed, Oct 30, 2013 10:49am
Mike. Your brain is clouding up. Did you listen to the clip?

First of all, Ted Cruz's figures are inflated. He added tax benefits to the equation.. What you, Mike, are agreeing to, is that if you break the law, and can't write your fine off on your taxes (is that really fair?) then that fine cost you money that you wouldn't have paid if you hadn't broken the law... I would laugh at you out loud if you complained that you got a $200 speeding ticket and since you can't deduct that from your taxes, it really costs you $333 dollars... (how it becomes that much, I don't know, but that increase is exactly the same ratio Ted Cruz is basing the following entire argument (27 minutes) upon...

And you bought it? And you are saying the government should have been shut-down because of this twisted juggling of figures? Really? People are still that dumb?

Now second... The imaginary owner of the company Ted Cruz is proposing, to which he can create any scenario he wants because it is an "imaginary" company... could simply offer insurance to his employees, as is the law, and avoid the entire scenario that Ted Cruz makes up..... The entire problem Ted Cruz invents, is because the owner will not comply with the law and offer insurance. Ted Cruz mentions not once in his speech that in reality, every other business is now offering insurance and as of now, is still staying in business.

Mike... If you drive 65 mph in a 65 mph zone, you won't have to pay a fine... Likewise if you provide insurance to your employees, you won't have to pay a fine...

In fact, just like speeding and getting caught is stupid, not insuring your employees is stupid... And if your stupid, you probably deserve getting caught and getting fined.... "Hey, all I did was just rob a bank. What are you arresting me for?"

Shutting down the government put 800,000 people out of work. Shutting down the government negatively impacted the economy by $24 billion according to Moody's Analytical Services..

Ted Cruz is a fool. It is starting to appear like you are too? :)

kavips
Wed, Oct 30, 2013 10:53am
Oh, Mike. and the answer to your question as to why CBS did not report on this... it might be because they are 1) smarter than your friend, and 2), smarter than you.....

It took me just seconds to see the flaw. They probably saw it much faster.

kavips
Wed, Oct 30, 2013 11:35am
And going back to the false outrage that Republicans and corporate news media outlets are trying to pin on Obama. I'm sure Rick Jensen will try....

This was not secret knowledge. This is part of Obamacare... The key plank of Obamacare was that there would now be certain minimums required by all insurance plans. If you didn't meet that minimum, your plan was illegal.. No different than passing the exhaust standard at the D.M.V. ... Yeah, it's a pain if you don't have up-to-day oxygen sensors, but it is the law, and if you want to register your car, you repair your car.

But... just to protect those who might like their plans and wish to keep them, Obamacare allowed for the grandfathering of all plans existing as of March 23, 2010.

The only stipulation was that if the plan changed significantly, it would not be the same plan (makes sense), and could not be covered.

Some of the changes that would change its status, are:

The elimination of all or substantially all benefits to diagnose or treat a medical condition. For example, an insurer could not eliminate coverage of treatments needed for cystic fibrosis.

An increase in the percentage of a procedure’s cost that enrollees must pay, such as charging 25% of the cost of a surgery when the percentage had been 20%.

A change in a fixed-dollar co-payment that exceeds the rate of medical inflation since enactment of health reform plus 15 percentage points, or $5 increased by medical inflation, whichever is greater. For example, a health plan would lose grandfathered status if it raised its copayment for a physician visit to $40 from $20 and medical inflation since March 2010 was 7.2%. (The $20 increase exceeds 22.2 percent — the 7.2 percent inflation rate plus 15 percentage points — and also exceeds $5.36, or $5 adjusted to reflect 7.2 percent medical inflation.)

Increases in fixed-dollar cost-sharing amounts other than co-payments (i.e., deductibles and the total amount you must pay each year out of pocket) that exceed the rate of medical inflation since enactment of the health reform law plus 15 percentage points.

A reduction in the share of costs an employer pays toward group health coverage, if the new employer share is more than five percentage points below the one in place when health reform was enacted.

Basically if the Health Insurer made any changes to the plan, primarily to increase his profits, the plans could not be grandfathered.

That is what we are hearing today... Ohhhhhhhhh... these poor people are losing their health plans... Wooooooooeeee is Obamacare.... It's mean. It's so terrible..

Umm. Hello. Any insurer could have kept the plan and still made just as much money as he was on March 23, 2010... But nooooooooooo, he wanted to make more...

Well, hello again!..If your health plan is not going to meet minimum requirements... why should it be allowed to continue?

Would you pay for a warranty that admits it won't do anything if you ever have to cash it in? "Oh sorry Sir, but you see the fine print right here, under where it says price $2000, paid in full... Not valid if ever turned in. Well, you are turning it in, so it is no longer valid..."

Republicans have got to be the most stupid group of people ever to exist on this planet... to try and use this as a bludgeon against Obamacare... They must all be on cocaine. There really is not other explanation ....

And I tracked down these most "secret" sources Lisa Myers of NBC news found... It appears it is a Consumer Reports like publication for the medical field, which very accurately portrays exactly what the profit-scalping insurance companies would attempt to do....

If this information was spread across the public domain, it is a lie to say Obama knew this and didn't tell you.. All you had to do was read...

And for the record, since he did grandfather all insurance plans as of March 23, 2010... he did not lie when he said if you like your insurance, you can keep it.

Apparently the insurance executives didn't like their insurance, so they made darned sure you would not be able to keep it....

Someone give Rick Jensen some cooking oil to wipe that egg off his face... :)

kavips
Wed, Oct 30, 2013 11:48am
And for the record... here is the "other side of the story" as those of us past a certain age are very prone to say.....

"The Truth" is the shortened form of the phrase....

GOP Governors failed their citizens by not setting up their own exchanges.

GOP Governors who opted out of building their own exchanges must take partial blame for the problems with the Obamacare exchanges.

GOP Governors are sentencing thousands of children and adults to die by not adopting the Medicaid Expansion to Obamacare.

When the GOP talks about not having input into Obamacare, they are lying. Absent their input there would be no mandate and there would be a public option.

Republicans are lying when they say Obamacare won’t work. The Affordable Care Act is already working for millions of Americans. Millions that were denied coverage for pre-existing conditions are now covered. Insurance companies can no longer throw folks off their policies when they get sick. There is no longer a maximum cap on insurance payouts. There is much more yet to be covered.

Obamacare is based on Mitt Romney’s (R) universal healthcare in Massachusetts. Over 98.1% of Massachusetts citizens are insured.

That is the rest of the story... and speaking of Massachusetts... after the first month of sign ups in Massachusetts for Romneycare... its grand total was 123.

kavips
Wed, Oct 30, 2013 11:55am
Aron. Above, you particularly mentioned a man listed in one of the articles who was having to pay more for his insurance...

Appears he is jockeying for a leadership position in the Republican Party... Can his story be trusted, considering he represents the party that shut-down the U.S. government, the very same party that delayed payments to Delaware's Air National Guard, the very week they came back from serving their country in Afghanistan?

Could he possibly have another ax to grind?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/29/1251578/-Google-the-poor-guy-whose-insurance-is-going-up-find-a-Republican-candidate

kavips
Wed, Oct 30, 2013 12:14pm
And sorry to be so productive today... But there is so much catching up to do before Rick goes on air in about an hour..

This is soooo funny I just had to share it... CBS led with a story about a woman in Florida who had to pay 10 times her insurance... "Boo Hoo" she cried nationwide across CBS television.. "I used to pay $50 dollars a month and now I have to pay $591. The president lied. He said I could keep my health care if I wanted... Boo hoo hoo. Now I have to pay more money... boo hoo hoo...."

Would I have run that story? To get viewers? Sure. So I can't fault CBS... They're not like WDEL; they're an entertainment facility. The Jerry Springer of Newscasters.

But guess who poked the hole in that story? Greta Van Sustern of Fox...

“I have a copy of your Florida Blue insurance and it’s about $54 a month,” Greta continued.. "Actually, the plan BCBSFL was only one of many plans you had to choose from, 10 of which are cheaper than that $591, and based on your income, you’d only pay around $209 a month."

"Your $54 a month policy is a pretty, you know, bare bones policy, “Greta said. “Why do you want to keep that one, except for the price? Maybe you can get something better with a subsidy?”

It turns out that the insurance company paid a $50 'co-pay' towards a doctor visit, and $15 for prescriptions, and she herself was responsible for all the rest of the costs.

This is exactly the type of junk insurance Obamacare is meant to do away with, and it is not surprising that people don't know what their insurance covers. But whereas we certainly expect Earl or Mr. Pizza to throw this nonsense out there... we really do think that CBS news should hold themselves to a slightly higher standard...

Well, shouldn't they?

It appears they have less ethical sense than does Fox News... a subsequent interview that was to take place on Fox News was then canceled after Greta poked holes in the story. Following her chat with Van Susteren, the lady got word from a network producer that her appointment to appear this morning on Fox News was canceled, or so she tells the Erik Wemple Blog.


EarlGrey
Wed, Oct 30, 2013 3:12pm
What does the FOX say?

kavips: You sure are in full-tilt spin these days...and looking extremely foolish in the process. Keep up the Newspeak, komrade kavips.

Mike from Delaware
Wed, Oct 30, 2013 3:24pm
Kavips: I didn't buy the not paying tax on the fine part either, but instead focused on the bigger point he was making.

[1] legal Americans must have what the government has now decided to be the minimum coverage, even if you were happy with your old coverage.
[2] Illegals are being given some special classification where they can work here, but employers are NOT required to give them healthcoverage.

Cruz's point, as my puny mind understood it to be, was simply math. An employer has two people interviewing for a job. A legal Tax Paying American [LTPA] and an illegal. If the employer hires the LTPA he/she must provide goverment sanctioned insurance or pay a hefty fine for that new employee. If the employer hires the illegal, then they don't have to do squat, no fine, etc. Last time I checked, most business folks are into the "bottom line", meaning the illegal will get hired and the LTPA will be passed over. THAT was Ted Cruz's point.

YES, that's a big story. So YES CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS,NPR, should have covered that aspect of Obamacare. Kind of implies that they're all in the tank for Obama.

What surprises me is that our ole pal Al Sharpton isn't up in arms about this. Folks who work for the larger employers who do provide healthcare already won't have a problem where they'll lose their healthcare but it probably is going to cost them more, as mine will next year [due to all the freebies being given away that we never got before. Again the bottom line for a company who's only going to pay so much and then pass it on to the employee]. However the smaller employers [many minority owned businesses fit into this situation] will be directly affected. Many minorities work for smaller companies, so many minorities will lose their insurance and be forced to pay more for coverage they may not want. So I'm surprised that Al Sharpton isn't up in arms about this. Maybe if it were a Republican Prez, Sharpton would be speaking up. Maybe because Obama is black, Sharpton is looking the other way. There's more than one kind of racism, you know.

mrpizza
Wed, Oct 30, 2013 5:21pm
I believe Obama could walk into a crowded club with a machine gun, open fire and kill a hundred people, and Kavips would still defend him.

I'm not saying Obama would do such a thing, but I need the most extreme analogy to demonstrate just how much of a drone Mr. Kavips really is.


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