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WDEL Blog: Allan Loudell

Open Friday / Weekend Forum

So, which stories / topics / issues grab you here at the end of the week?


Near the end of the week, Wilmington Mayor Dennis Williams was catching flak from some members of City Council for his remarks about instituting a dramatic shake-up of the Wilmington Police Department. Some believe the mayor thinks he just needs a scapegoat, and Police Chief Christine Dunning is the obvious one. Another widely heard narrative: That Williams himself is calling the shots in the WPD, simultaneously functioning as both mayor and de-facto police chief.



The latest on the roll-out of the President's health-care overhaul...

From POLITICO: "If people whose health insurance was canceled over Obamacare this year don't line up new coverage this month, the Obama Administration could face a political nightmare. More people could have lost coverage than gained it when the health-law benefits begin on January 1.

That's by no means a certainty: The sign-up website is doing better, some insurance carriers are extending plans instead of canceling them, and there are millions more uninsured people who stand to get covered than there are covered people getting cancellations. Medicaid sign-ups are also running strong..."

From NATIONAL JOURNAL: "It's not the voters who hate Obamacare the most who are going to matter in next year's elections. It's the independents who frequently side with Democrats but could, if propelled by a distaste for the health-care law, take a serious look at the G.O.P. in 2014. And, on this front, Democrats have a big problem with one of their most crucial constituencies -- white women.

Polling provided to NATIONAL JOURNAL by the Kaiser Family Foundation shows that white women have soured considerably on the law, especially in the month since the botched rollout. The skepticism runs especially deep among blue-collar women, sometimes known as "waitress moms", whose deeply pessimistic attitudes towards the Affordable Care Act should riddle Democratic candidates with anxiety..."



President Obama is calling for a raise in the nation's minimum wage. Just Wednesday, the president declared: "It's well past time to raise a minimum wage that, in real terms right now, is below where it was when Harry Truman was in office..." But would the president dare do what he could probably do unilaterally? Sign an executive order hiking the minimum wage for workers employed through U.S. Government contracts with private companies. Chairmen of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, Representatives Raul Grijalva and Keith Ellison, drafted a letter urging the president to go around Congress. A progressive Dem think-tank, Demos, finds nearly 2 Million private sector workers funded through public money (direct Federal contracts plus Federal health-care spending; loans through the Small Business Administration; infrastructure grants; or, custodians cleaning Federal buildings leased from private companies, for example) were making under twelve bucks an hour in 2012. That would be more folks than those employed by WalMart and McDonald's combined. Advocates of such a maneuver cite as precedent LBJ signing an executive order giving the Secretary of Labor enforcement authority to provide equal opportunities to minorities in Federal contractors' recruiting, hiring, and training. Naturally, conservatives (who oppose the minimum wage on principle, or who simply don't want to shell out the money if their private business people) would call such a move another Presidential power grab usurping the U.S. Constitution.

By the way, here's a fascinating case of a libertarian entrepreneur who FAVORS raising the minimum wage: Silicon Valley entrepreneur Ron Unz is launched a campaign to raise California's minimum wage to 12 bucks an hour by 2016. Unz, who sought the Republican nomination for California Governor in 1994 (only to lose to Pete Wilson), and who has written regularly for The AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE, argues as follows: "We have all these low-wage workers who are getting $7.50, $8, or $9 an hour, and because they earn such small wages, the government subsidizes them with Billions, or tens of Billions of dollars of social-welfare spending that comes from the taxpayer. It's a classic example of businesses privatizing the benefits of their workers while socializing the costs..." How else to explain McDonald's urging its workers to apply for food stamps?



Republicans have another intra-party fight: House Republicans have two promising candidates who happen to be gay: In northeastern Massachusetts, Richard Tisei - who lost a tight contest to Representative John Tierney in 2012; and in San Diego, ex City Councilman Carl DeMaio seeks to unseat Democratic Representative Scott Peters. At least, one problem: A senior House Republican with eyes on a powerful committee chairmanship - Virginia Representative Randy Forbes - continues to fight a marathon battle to get the House G.O.P. arm to deny support for openly gay Congressional candidates. But some senior House Republicans appear not to share that view.



British journalist Martin Bashir has given up his job as a talk host at MSNBC after his remarks suggesting someone should defecate in Sarah Palin's mouth. Bashir had taken umbrage with a speech in which the former Alaska governor compared U.S. debt to China with slavery. But this was the context: Bashir related the story of a former overseer of a slave plantation, Thomas Thistlewood. Thistlewood related in his diaries how he handled wayward slaves: In one case, having another slave defecate in the mouth of the recalcitrant slave. Bashir concluded: "When Ms. Palin invokes slavery, she doesn't just prove her rank ignorance, she confirms (that) if anyone truly qualifies for a dose of discipline from Thomas Thistlewood, then she would be an outstanding candidate". Something hit the fan. Even though Bashir apologised to Palin and to his viewers - calling the remarks "wholly unacceptable" and "deeply offensive" - apparently that wasn't enough. Bashir's departure from MSNBC came almost simultaneously to the network axing actor Alec Baldwin, who mouthed an anti-gay slur in a street encounter.


Speaking of cable TV news, doubtless we'll see marathon coverage on the cable networks on the life of the now late South African President Nelson Mandela, the late 20th century's Gandhi-like figure.









Posted at 2:43pm on December 5, 2013 by Allan Loudell

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Comments on this post:

kavips
Thu, Dec 5, 2013 3:22pm
It's Friday... already?

mrpizza
Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:38pm
It wouldn't surprise me if Obama went around Congress because that's what he's been doing all along anyway because he's a DICTATOR.

kavips
Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:46pm
He may have to if America still wants anything done. However, better to keep Congress, just have it become Democratic by a super majority....

Then America will rock.

(Pizza, some people may think Tinkerbell is a dictator too, but because they say it, doesn't make it true.)

kavips
Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:50pm
There is hope for the Republicans after all. But only if they pick Christie and kick the Tea Party out to its own splinter-party. The Democrats are getting fed up with the centrists, who to them have sold out to the corporate overlords and will probably have kicking drag out fight giving the most liberal Republican, a glimmer of hope....

But only if the Tea Party disappears...


kavips
Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:40pm
Back to serious topics. If the Tea Party has the right to shut government down when it can't get it's way, costing the American economy $24 billion in lost economic activity, the the President should likewise have the exact same right to require a higher minimum wage for all Federal workers employed by the Federal dollars being spent.

Fair is fair. Whereas the Tea Party cost the economy $24 billion, the Democratic action in this case would boost the economy $24 billion, or more.

it is pretty silly if the Tea Party calls foul on forcing ones hand, after Ted Cruz led the closing of the entire Federal Government across a good part of October....

But the Tea Party was never smart.

mrpizza
Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:49pm
Kavips: Remember what I said about Christie. If he's the Republican nominee, then I'm voting for the Communist Party candidate.

mrpizza
Thu, Dec 5, 2013 11:03pm
Oh and Kavips, about Obama. You'd defend him even if he walked into a crowded nightclub with a machine gun and massacred the place. You'd just say the victims had it coming to them, just like all those innocent people who lost their health insurance had it coming to them.

kavips
Thu, Dec 5, 2013 11:26pm
No, Mr. Pizza. You are confused. Don't put your tea party excuses on me. I do not defend the man Obama. I defend what he does... because after 8 years of Bush, and now 3 years of the Tea Party House of Representatives, we can ill afford any more Republican attempts at making our country better...... not to mention that if I remember correctly, every single governor of a Republican state is going backwards in economic activity, and every Democrat governor is going forward.....

Republicans ruin everything they touch. History will determine Obama as one of our great presidents if only because of the very reason he was able to do what he did, despite the Republicans trying to ruin the country underneath him...

What's the longest stretch any Republican as ever gone without losing any private sector jobs? 5 months.

How long is Obama's streak now? Going on 48 months? Republicans can only wish they were half as good as Obama...

it is not that Obama is so great... The miracle is that the Republicans are so terrible and despite that, Obama is still moving us forward. They even tried to shut the government down on him; he still moved us forward. No other president other than Lincoln, has had a more hostile party... And Lincoln beat them silly in a war....

Don't forget. only 6 Tea Partiers showed up at Texas's Tea Party convention last week... America is tired of their whining, complaining, and being just the laziest group of Congressmen ever in the history of the United States of America.


kavips
Thu, Dec 5, 2013 11:33pm
Here is a great comment rescue from DelawareLiberal.net.

Someone over there put up an old blog post from 2005 which showed the Republicans were in La La land... in regards to Iraq.... The Republican email went like this......

“Over 1,800 Projects Are Finished. Schools, Roads, Health Facilities, We Have An Inspection Of A Maternity Hospital, Police Station, A Number Of Electrical Substations In Iraq.

A New Road Has Opened In Eastern Baghdad And Is Expected To Improve The Economy And Benefit Over 60,000 Iraqis.

Iraq Is Planning On A Tourist Boom – With A 23-Story Luxury Hotel In The Heart Of Baghdad And A Theme Park Of Saddam Hussein’s Palaces As Centerpieces.”

The greatest commentor of the year... made this observation....

"Holy alternate reality. In 2005, building infrastructure, schools, and health facilities for women were seen as achievements. In Iraq. In 2013, the achievement is systematically dismantling them in this country."

http://www.delawareliberal.net/2013/12/05/from-the-delawareliberal-archives-or-why-i-hate-john-carneys-bullshit/#comment-376325

Aren't Republicans the biggest fools in Christendom? Bragging on what they are building in Iraq... while tearing every single one of those brags down over here?

Gosh. what horrible people they are... How do they even live with themselves... So glad Delaware is free of them....

EarlGrey
Thu, Dec 5, 2013 11:38pm
The Tea Party tried to defund this disastrous thing called 0bamaCare and the Democrats painted them as the cause for the shutdown...the Republicans were willing to fund everything except for 0bamaSnare. The Democrats shut down parks and stopped payments to our military...Republicans approved the funding of these things...just not ACA. Had the Tea Party suceeded in defunding ACA that $24B would have been a bargain, but sadly their efforts fell short.

Please explain why it's so important to blame the Tea Party for costing this supposed $24B amount, yet ignore the $6 TRILLION additional debt we taxpayers owe thanks to 0bama and the Democrats.

"Since President Barack Obama took office in January 2009, more than $6 trillion dollars has been added to the national debt.
"Without fanfare, the Bureau of Public Debt at the Treasury Department quietly posted its daily debt report showing the total public debt of the U.S. government topped $16.687 trillion. (To be exact: $16,687,289,180,215.37)," reports Mark Knoller of CBS.
"On January 20, 2009, the day Mr. Obama took office, the debt stood at $10.626 trillion. The latest posting reflects an increase of over $6 trillion."

http://m.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamas-now-added-6-trillion-national-debt_704980.html

In 2014 people will remember who voted for or against 0bamCare and Democrats are getting very nervous about the epic fail of ACA.

kavips
Fri, Dec 6, 2013 10:35am
Based on the above, here is Earl's Tea Party's re-depiction of WWII..

"Hitler tried to defend this disastrous thing called Pan-Europeanism decaying from within caused by the non-Christian heathen known as the Jewery, and the Allies painted him as the cause for the WWII

The Nazi's were willing to allow everything except for Jews...

The Allies bombed churches and factories, putting people out of work...

The Nazis were willing to let all Europe live, work, and function, as long as they were neither Jewish, or the Resistance...

Had Germany been able to control all of Europe, including Britain and Russia, all those bombed out towns, houses and churches and buried soldiers would have been a bargain... but sadly, their efforts fell short....

Please explain why it is important to blame the Nazi's for the 7 million Jews who were exterminated in good faith, whose riddance decreased the surplus population, and not even mention the 9,000,000 men and boys who lost their lives 30 years earlier in WWI......"

Oh...Mr. Earl... btw, all that debt you are trying to blame on Obama could have easily been washed away a long time ago, except for the fact that Republicans voted down every plan that was raise the revenue to cover the legislation they were so ready and willing to pass... Every balanced budget amendment was voted down if it raised the revenue required. Republicans OWN the debt, all of it.

No one can blame Obama when the Republicans refused to allow the payments to be accurately assessed on all those whose incomes were increasing 300% or more....

And for the rest of you... let this be a reminder... The only way any sane man or woman can ever be a Tea Party person, is to twist reality into a fantasy so preposterous, that only then will their actions ever make sense....

As long as truth reigns.. The Tea Party is dead.




EarlGrey
Fri, Dec 6, 2013 11:24am
Wow was that a rabbit-hole in reasoning...where did Alice go?
I guess that makes me the Mad Hatter...are you the hookah-smoking Caterpillar?

Sorry but 0bama owns this $6 TRILLION in additional debt just as Bush is responsible for the HUGE debt he incurred whilst in office. The person at the top gets credit for both the good and the bad (facts of life)...

Hopefully we can learn from the past and not repeat these same mistakes the next election cycle...No more giant bailouts, no more "Patriot Acts", no more banning of light bulbs (yep that was under Bush)...

billsmith
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 7:09am
Christian bakeshop MUST serve same-sex customers after owner refused to make wedding cake for gay couple, rules judge

* Jack Phillips, owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop in Denver, Colorado refused to make a wedding cake for a same-sex couple
* Charlie Craig and David Mullins got married in Massachusetts but wanted a cake to celebrate their union in Colorado
* When Phillips found out that the cake was for a same-sex ceremony, he turned the couple away
* The ACLU filed a suit against the bakeshop on behalf of the couple
* While the judge ordered that Phillips can't discriminate against customers in the future, no fines were imposed on his business

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2519741/Judge-orders-bakeshop-serve-sex-customers-owner-REFUSED-make-rainbow-wedding-cake-gay-couple.html#ixzz2mn3U3i7U

billsmith
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 7:21am
Once again, people get injured (this time, luckily, not killed) because some selfish old person values her "independence" more than anyone else's life and refuses to stop driving.
An old lady backed her car into two parked cars yesterday and then drove her car into - all the way into - a Trader Joe's on Long Island. Eleven people are in the hospital. The store is a complete wreck. And the cops apparently are being "nice" to the old lady. No charges filed. They haven't released her name.
Old people loose it. It's a fact of life. They need to renew licenses annually and be re-checked each time. But the AARP and others spend millions lobbying to stop such laws.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/cops-11-hurt-as-car-crashes-into-trader-joe-s-in-oceanside-1.6555955

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/car-crashes-long-island-trader-joe-article-1.1540001

mrpizza
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 8:34am
Sorry Bill, but if we can't discriminate against homosexuals, then we can't do it to old people either. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

billsmith
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 9:21am
Pizza: If and when homosexuality is shown to have a causal relationship to impaired driving, you can "discriminate" against them in the area, too. We already "discriminate" against people with various disabilities in not allowing them to drive (or limiting driving privileges).

I guess you don't shop at Trader Joe's but some old bag could just as easily plow into a Dominio's.

I observe that people most morally threatened by gays, in general, could not walk into a gay bar and get a date right before closing. Gay rights is not something you need to worry about. Getting hit by a car driven by an impaired driver is.

billsmith
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 9:31am
FYI:
10 Things Restaurants Aren’t Telling You

Whether it’s recycled wine or made-up wait times, Urbanspoon’s peek behind the scenes exposes secrets from restaurant staffers to help patrons make more informed decisions when dining out.

Quoted from Urbanspoon: http://www.urbanspoon.com/blog/2013/12/10-things-restaurants-arent-telling/#ixzz2mnd8LyQs

I wonder what people who deliver pizza aren't telling us.

kavips
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 9:53am
I am glad Earl painted the reasoning as abstract and worthy of Alice in Wonderland. That was entirely my point! It was not a depiction of my reasoning. It was an accurate portrayal of how the Tea Party thinks. I appreciate Earl's gracious acknowledging that the Tea Party has no real ground upon which to firmly stand....

Which leaves only one argument left. They don't like Obama because he is black... After all, it's certainly not because of his policies. Obama is actually too conservative for the majority of the Democratic Party.... .

Though Earl lives in a make believe world, the rest of us don't.. Every publication in the world breaks down the debt as follows... Republican war in Iraq.. $1 trillion. Republican war in Afghanistan.. $1 trillion. Republican expansion of prescriptions... $1 trillion.. Republican tax cuts. $3 Trillion. That totals $6 trillion.

For one man out of 7 billion people, to boldly state on one blog out of 100 million blogs, that his view is the only correct one, even though the rest all know it not to be...

.,..is his right. It is also our right to never believe anything he says again... for it simply is not true.... If one errs on what everyone knows is wrong, he is probably telling a lie on all the other stuff he is saying as well.

billsmith
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 10:27am
Kavips: I don't like Obama because he betrayed the progressive base that supported him. Yes, he is to the right of most Democrats. So was Slick Willy for that matter. Progressives are often so desperate, they will support anybody who is not a wing-nut (or pandering to wing-nuts) and talks pretty. In addition, progressives - in full flower of political correctness and liberal guilt - supported Obama BECAUSE he is Black. People who like Obama because he is Black or hate him because he is Black may differ in degree, but not in kind. I also don't like Obama because he has a dubious and politically expedient claim to call himself Black. He is mixed race, raised in a White household in a state with very Black and where much of the population is mixed race. He became "Black" when he came to Mainland and discovered affirmative action could work to his advantage. I don't like Obama because he is an opportunist; someone who spent his entire political career running for something else. He might be more effective in working with congress if he had actually showed up occasionally as a senator. He spent about as much time in the senate as Dubya did at National Guard meetings. I don't consider him as "evil" as the Dittoheads and Tea Baggers like to claim. He is incompetent.

We can also think the political media for Obama, the Boys on the Bus, who got so enthralled with the "story" of "the first Black president" that they puffed Obama, gave him kid glove treatment and failed in doing their due diligence.

In addition to the media, we can thank the primary system of choosing candidates which (with the media's help) has turned elections into the kind of no-brainer popularity contests once associated with high school class officer elections.

The old saw is people get the government they deserve. Well, maybe everybody deserves Obama. And if they don't wake up, he will be followed (with the media's eager help) by somebody just like him (whether or not he plays for the same team or the other team).

You say Obama is the greatest president in our lifetime. The tea baggers tell us it's a mediocre B-movie actor, with a few lies and scandals of his own (now conveniently forgotten). Either way, the bar for "greatness" is set pretty low.


Mike from Delaware
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 10:33am
Mrpizza: Billsmith is correct on this issue. There are some elderly folks who should not be allowed to drive any longer.

What needs to happen is we, as a nation, and each state, need to expand mass transit [Delaware has been doing this, but more is needed]. The problem is, years ago most folks lived in a city [Wilmington, Philly, NYC, etc,] where you didn't need to drive to get groceries, meds, visit your doctor, go to church, etc, as there was a fine bus, trolley, elevated rail, or subway system for them to use. Today, most folks live in the glorious suburbs and have mediocre or no mass transit available. So those elderly folks in the suburbs are stranded and feel they have no other option, but to drive.

I also realize that some here would see expanding DART as "socialistic" because having government support mass transit [which by the way has been supported by the state/fed governments since the mid 1960's] is what those "evil socialistic nations in Europe do".

Having better mass transit benefits all of us, even if you don't use it. When you do drive, there would be less traffic thus less congestion, so it would take you less time to get where you are going, less accidents which should lower insurance rates too. Some day when all of us are "geezers" we might be grateful for a nearby DART bus route, so why should today's geezers have to do without?

This is an example of what I mean when I suggest that we should take the best of both worlds [capitalism/socialism] for our benefit. This tiny bit of "socialism" would be a good thing without having to become a socialistic nation and there is a difference.

kavips
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 10:47am
Mike brings up a good point.. "Socialism" is a term thrown around too often, and is done with no concern for it's proper meaning... Putting more money into mass transit is a good investment. Since when did investing well become Socialism?

Pretty silly really.. For if it was possible to walk out your door, get to work, faster and cheaper than driving, why would we need cars? Or if I could step out, lock my door, walk a block, and wind up in Tampa 4 hours later, and it would only cost me $49 dollars... just one day of what my car insurance, gas, and depreciation costs me, why wouldn't I?

Imagine all that money wasted on car insurance that could be spent in businesses across this nation?

That is what investment in Public Transportation does... It certainly isn't Socialism...

kavips
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 10:51am
There is a flaw in Bill's argument and is inherent in all arguments that try to pin Obama's election on "helping a brother out."

That is history.

Mike from Delaware
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 10:55am
Billsmith said: "progressives - in full flower of political correctness and liberal guilt - supported Obama BECAUSE he is Black. People who like Obama because he is Black or hate him because he is Black may differ in degree, but not in kind. I also don't like Obama because he has a dubious and politically expedient claim to call himself Black. He is mixed race, raised in a White household in a state with very Black and where much of the population is mixed race. He became "Black" when he came to Mainland and discovered affirmative action could work to his advantage. I don't like Obama because he is an opportunist; someone who spent his entire political career running for something else. He might be more effective in working with congress if he had actually showed up occasionally as a senator. He spent about as much time in the senate as Dubya did at National Guard meetings. I don't consider him as "evil" as the Dittoheads and Tea Baggers like to claim. He is incompetent."

Well said, Billsmith.
Bill's last sentence says it all. He [Obama] is incompetent.

Obama's time "worshiping" at Rev. Wright's church possibly also was to help give him "black creds" with the black community [relating to Billsmith's comment of Obama being an opportunist - remember he said he had no idea his pastor said such things about America - really??]. After all Oprah worshiped there too.

Obama seems like a bit of an elitist to me, who'd be more comfortable at a country club rubbing elbows with the "swells" than in a shouting and singing Urban Gospel church in a minority part of Chicago.

Frankly, if Obama had been white, Hillary would now be Prez in my opinion. She was my choice in 2008 as I could not support Palin for dog catcher much less VP nor the man who was dumb enough to pick her as his running mate[McCain], but Obama won the nomination. It is what it is.

Remember I'm a registered Independent, I'm not loyal to either party, but vote for whom I believe will do the best job.

kavips
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 11:09am
In case that point above wasn't clear. Obama took on the appointed heir of the Democratic party, Hillary Clinton, and beat her. Some members of the press may have tried to paint Obama as BillS describes. But others, tried to paint an opposite picture in support of Hillary. She was no wimp; she did not hold any punches...

The only reason Obama was the Democrats choice for president is that he beat out their second choice for president in the longest primary season ever recorded since we stopped using backrooms in conventions to decide the candidates...

Then, after doing so, he had to run against the best liked Republican contender. Their choice who had beaten off all other contenders in short-lived pitched battle.

Both of those went head to head, and Obama won....

When people try to blame Obama's success on the color of his skin, on his laziness, on his lack of work habits, on his opportunism, on his pretty wife, on his white grandmother,... they are dismissing the American voter as a pollywag that does whatever he gets told....

There is a Tea Party for people like that, and apparently there are now only 6 people like that in Texas... Those "kind of " people do not represent all America. The rest of Americans think for themselves....

And if they voted for Obama over your girl Hillary, it was because they wanted Obama over your girl Hillary.... Are some Hillary people still bitter?

Apparently?..... Yes. lol.

And it further bears mentioning that if Obama who was seen as less conservative than Hillary has toed the middle of the road since taking the oath in office, how much further right would Hillary walk, if she'd won the primary which was really a battle of how liberal should our party be?


billsmith
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 11:14am
I wonder if the toothpaste isn't out of the tube.

Lest we forget, we did have private mass transit. The auto industry (automakers, suppliers, oil companies, road builders and their suppliers...) did a good job of killing off mass transit. GM was a major player and at the time, Dupont controlled GM. But the construction industry got in the act, too. Once people lived and worked around transportation lines. We had downtowns and villages. Now we have spread out subdivisions with big yards and winding streets and cul de sacs. No way to get buses, street cars, light rail or trains to those people. Or into the sprawling suburban office parks where many people work.

And increasingly you have to drive to a big box store, in a sprawling shopping center, to buy day to day stuff. Even Wawa has moved out of neighborhoods in favor of bigger rest-stop type stores with gas pumps. Once most people could walk to the store for everyday shopping, and in addition, trucks delivering dairy products, baked goods, produce ... came through neighborhood streets daily. Now in addition to the cost of what you buy, you have the cost of driving to a store/warehouse - cutting retailers' costs and doing a lot of their work for them.

A lot of people make more money because we are forced to use cars for almost everything.

Any time some business interest sees a revenue stream threatened, they trot out the S-word and people respond like Pavlov's dogs. Do any of you want to get rid of: Socialized schools (public education)? Socialized roads (we used to have private turnpikes)? Socialized delivery (the post office)? Socialized fire fighters (insurance companies once sent guys to your house if it caught on fire, but only if your premiums were paid up). Socialized protection services (cops; used to be you had to hire your own, if you could afford it). We have socialism when: (1) Capitalists decide they are no longer interested in providing a necessary service (like mass transit) or (2) They do such a bad job of it, there's a public outcry and the government steps in.

kavips
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 11:24am
And Mike, tying in with another thread regarding teachers, I am sensing a trend here.. When you gave your description to BillS of bad teachers, the descriptions and how you wrote them made me think that all of the teachers you had problems with, were black.

Now, you are calling probably the greatest president in our lifetimes, incompetent and happy over his impeachment... and then above, when BillS pushes the Black button, you enthusiastically jump all over it...

Furthermore, in our past frequent conversations over education, you are very bitter towards the Court of Delaware's segregation ruling and how it affected the education of your children... perhaps, dare I say quite possibly ruined it since you couldn't pull your children our of suburban public schools?

Now if I were a betting person and obviously I am, I would bet that all that previous experience has colored your view entirely upon this president... and anger from the past is influencing your vision and causing you to not see things clearly?

I could be wrong and very well may be for how can anyone ever know what goes on in someone else's head? One can't. Therefore as a public service, I am only mentioning this in light of what it looks like from the outside, by people who obviously don't know and must therefore make up their opinions based on what they see right in front of them.....

Just wanted to extend that common courtesy, that is all.

billsmith
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 11:24am
"When people try to blame Obama's success on the color of his skin, on his laziness, on his lack of work habits, on his opportunism, on his pretty wife, on his white grandmother,... they are dismissing the American voter as a pollywag that does whatever he gets told...."

Yup, pretty much.

"There is a Tea Party for people like that, and apparently there are now only 6 people like that in Texas... Those "kind of " people do not represent all America. The rest of Americans think for themselves...."

They do represent most of America. PC types mostly are as much "true believers" as the tea baggers.

Kavips: I will admit Hillary ran a poor campaign. She's smart and competent but she's probably better behind the curtain. Unfortunately, candidates get elected for charisma, speech-making ability, media presence and not for their ability to do the job well. Too much Democracy can be a bad thing. Bosses in smoke-filled rooms, state legislators and presidential electors often did a much better job selecting office holders (and keeping them on track).

Mike from Delaware
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 11:53am
Kavips said: "And if they voted for Obama over your girl Hillary, it was because they wanted Obama over your girl Hillary.... Are some Hillary people still bitter? "

So if I say the phrase your boy Obama, are you going to accuse me of being anti-black or a racist? PC says calling a woman "your girl" is offensive and belittling to liberated women of today, as calling a black man "your boy" is. You should be more sensitive to how other folks who aren't black feel.

Nice try Kavips: Those teachers I had issues with were all white teachers. My kids had some really great teachers, some white, some black, even one who was a lesbian [she wore men's clothes, wore a man's haircut, no makeup, no female jewelery, etc].

A person's race, ethnic background, sexual orientation doesn't make someone a bad or a good teacher or a good or bad President.

This is why our nation can not have an honest and open discussion about the Race Problem in America. Whites are required by PC to walk on eggs lest we say something that offends non-whites, because white European males are responsible for any and all evil that's happened in the world since Adam and Eve, and we're to blame for that, because we didn't stop Eve from eating the apple [event though Adam and Eve were probably Africans].

Blacks are too focused on waiting for someone to say something offensive and are quick to jump on it if they think that happened. One reason many don't like Obama is for that, if they say something against him, they must be racists, but it was OK when blacks say something bad about Bush Jr or other white leaders. That's a double standard. So until we, as a nation can dump Political Correctness and be free to express our thoughts without the fear of being labeled a racist, we'll never solve our race problems, because my friend BOTH sides have contributed to that problem in America, and until we can have THAT discussion it will not get better.

If having that point of view makes me a racist in your eyes, them that's your right and your opinion, and if that's your view then I'll think far less of you and will take your thoughts here far less seriously.


billsmith
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 12:00pm
" I would bet that all that previous experience has colored your view entirely upon this president..."

Pun intended, Kav?

Personally, I have seen no evidence of racial prejudice in what MikeFromDelaware has posted now or in the past. I also have experienced that often PC types want to make things - anything - about race.

I don't think it is prejudice for people to resent the considerations and preferences some want to give (often at the expense of others than themselves) to members of designated victim/entitlement groups. Mike wrote in the past of his experience in workplace "sensitivity" session, in which White males were made responsible for the sins of the world. I don't think it's prejudice to resent that either.

I think it's fair to say your view of Obama may be "colored."

In any case, I think real "brothers" have as much reason to resent Obama as anyone. He attended a privileged, private "missionary" school in Hawaii. He had little or no contact with actual African-Americans growing up. Until after college, he dated White chicks and ran in White social circles. He has no ancestors who were slaves; he has ancestors who were slaveholders. His so-called racial identity is opportunistic. Then he does a state visit to Ireland and talks about being "Irish." Go figure.


mrpizza
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 12:52pm
Now that homosexuals have special rights which infringe on the rights of normal people, it's pointless to have safe driving laws. A bad driver can only wipe out a few people at a time, but homosexuality will eventually wipe out American culture.

billsmith
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 1:16pm
Pizza: So, what are those "special rights" homosexuals have? Your use of the word "special" suggests these are rights unique to homosexuals. And how do those rights (if any) infringe on the rights of "normal people?" And whom or what do you consider normal?

Given the disproportionate representation of gays in the arts and entertainment fields, it's fair to say they are largely responsible for "American culture." It's tea baggers and fundamentalists doing their worst to wipe it out.

mrpizza
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 2:40pm
Glad you should ask, Bill. America was founded by God-fearing, freedom-loving people, who wanted a nation where people would be free to do the things that are right - that is, according to what God says is right. In fact, "normal" was the wrong word to use in my previous post. I should have said "decent" people.

When homosexuals can dictate that a private business has to cater to gay weddings, then that tramples the rights of us decent people who do not wish to be exposed to their ilk.
Your rights end where mine begin, and forcing businesses to cater to homosexuals violates freedom of association. There are plenty of other businesses, may homosexual owned, that they could have gone to for accomodation, so this clearly is just another effort by the gay rights (that is "special" rights) lobby to force their ilk on the rest us.

So again Bill, what's the point in having laws governing health and safety if we're gonna let homosexuals run roughshod over the rest of us? We may as well raise the speed limit to 125 and pour as much nitrous oxide into the air as possible. Homosexuality will just destroy America at a more gradual pace.

billsmith
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 3:07pm
Pizza: Gee, I thought it was founded by people who didn't want to pay taxes. Freedom-loving? Hardly. I presume you are referring to the Puritans (Pilgrims). A group came to Massachusetts and immediately started imposing their views of what's "right" on anybody else who showed. Meanwhile, in Britain, the bulk of the Puritans overthrew the King and made Oliver Cromwell dictator. The result of that was a regime which was an extreme example of religious repression. You can't mean Jamestown, because the Virginia Company was out to make money. "Freedom-loving" in your book means deciding what's right for everybody else. "Freedom-loving" also meant owning slaves.

People who do business with the public have to do business with the public - all of the public. You are making the same argument "freedom-loving" Southern business owners made 50 years ago against being required to serve Blacks (although they used a different word at the time).

So how is somebody making a cake for a gay wedding reception a "health and safety" issue?

And nitrous oxide in the air sounds like fun. Nitrous oxide is also known as "laughing gas," the stuff dentists use sometimes.

mrpizza
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 3:13pm
Time for the Supreme Court to strike down Murray v. Curlett.

Mike from Delaware
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 3:17pm
Mrpizza: We live in a society that has decided that it is wrong to discriminate and given our nation's history of discrimination and the evil that went along with that including lynchings, rapes, burning people's homes to the ground, the evil that happened to Matthew Shepherd a number of years ago in Wyoming I believe [its not just race, but sexual preference] is why that shouldn't be allowed, its just plain wrong.

A business should not be allowed to NOT serve someone because they are black, gay, fat, short, bald, ugly, etc. Now I'd say that same business should be able to say, no service if you're showing your butt crack with your pants around your ankles, or while talking on a cell phone, or you must speak English because our staff doesn't speak other languages, but that other stuff NO.

A real life example: Christian radio station WDAC in Lancaster during the 2004 election between Bush Jr and John Kerry was running ads for Kerry. You see, they are not allowed to not sell advertising to someone, unless the product goes against their religious beliefs. So no you'll not hear beer, wine, booze, or abortion services airing there, but ads from the DEMS is allowed. What cracked me up was prior and after the spot aired a disclaimer that said: this paid political message from the Democratic National Committee does not in anyway reflect the views of WDAC or its management.

So let's expand this a bit. A church should not be allowed to not give food from their food closet to some couple, because they are gay, BUT should not HAVE to marry that same gay couple. The difference is, one is a physical need the other is a spiritual thing.

You know what "Madison Avenue" finally figured out a number of years ago? Blacks, Gay/Lesbians, Hispanics money is as green and spends just as well as yours and mine. It is a stupid business person who won't sell a cake to some gay/lesbian couple, he's not marrying them, he's selling them a cake. The gay couple doesn't give a rip if he agrees with their plans, they just want to buy a cake from the guy, nothing more. To me THAT's a major difference.

How would you like it if the next time you and your wife went out to eat and they said, no Christians allowed? It either works for all or it works for none. Other than spiritual issues [marrying or ordaining practicing gay/lesbians,] which is a horse of a different color, no one should be discriminated against. No preferences, so a job opening should be based on who has the best qualifications, not their color, race, religion or lack of religion, or their sexual orientation. You should be able to walk into a black business and get just as good service as you'd get in Macy's or JC Penny's. The black person should get as good of service as they'd get in that black business when shopping in Macy's or JC Penny's. This is Civics 101.

billsmith
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 3:37pm
Pizza wants to force public school students to say "The Lord's Prayer." Pizza says he is "freedom-loving." His freedom. Not anybody else's.

Pizza works for the post office. Does he refuse to deliver invitations to a gay wedding? Or presents sent to the happy couple? If he shows up at a house delivering pizza and two guys answer, giving signs of wanting to include a pizza in a "romantic evening," does Pizza refuse to make the delivery? If he does any of this, should Pizza be fired? If he doesn't, is he a hypocrite?

billsmith
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 4:40pm
Apparently it is still the church's position that it's better for a woman to die than a fetus. And Catholic hospitals are imposing that position on their patients without informing, getting their consent or giving them a choice.

ACLU Sues, cClaiming Catholic Hospitals Put Women At Risk

A woman in Michigan says that a Catholic hospital failed to give her adequate health-care when she came to the hospital after her water broke when she was 18 weeks pregnant. That has sparked a lawsuit from the American Civil Liberties Union.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/12/02/248243411/aclu-sues-u-s-bishops-says-catholic-hospital-rules-put-women-at-risk



billsmith
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 4:44pm
Mitt told us corporations are people. Apparently the two have much in common. When corporations do good, they feel entitled to do bad. This seems to apply to people, too. It would explain a lot about some holier-than-thou types and politicians, too.

Examining Flip Side Of A Firm's Social Responsibility Record

Companies often practice image management. That is, after being caught doing something bad, they invest in philanthropic projects. Research is asking whether companies that do good are ever motivated to "cash in" on their good credit?
http://www.npr.org/2013/12/03/248320196/examining-flip-side-of-a-firms-social-responsibility-record

mrpizza
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 11:52pm
Okay Bill, let's try this another way. It's illegal for police to profile blacks, even though they commit about 90% of the crime in urban areas. It's illegal for TSA to profile Arab people, even though nearly 100% of terrorism is committed by Arabs. So, if you follow the logic to its logical conclusion, then we can't profile the elderly just because they could ram a car into a crowd of people. After all, the people they kill are just as dead as the people the criminals and terrorists kill.

This is the trouble with liberals. They always want it both ways.

kavips
Sat, Dec 7, 2013 11:58pm
Pizza, if there was a God fearing homosexual, who donated 10% of his time to charities, and never turned anyone down who asked for anything, verses a straight guy who said "God hates homosexuals", who beat his wife, abused his kids, humiliated panhandlers whenever he crossed paths with them, never tipped saying it was his money and he was keeping it for himself, and instead of putting in a dollar into the church's collection plate, he always took one out,... who do you think God would show more favor to?

God is probably smarter than you are. He knows what he is doing. He knows that America cannot be trusted to be run by people who pretend to be Christians. It would be a worse off America than one run by gays.

What works best of course, is when America is run by tolerant people all the way around.

mrpizza
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 12:02am
Mike from Delaware: My point about doing business with homosexuals has specifically to do with the Washington state case. There's a difference between homosexuals walking into a store and buying something - it's a whole different thing when a person who caters weddings is forced to work in a situation they're not comfortable with. I personally would refuse to be in that atmosphere, and if the government came and shut down my business or if I got fired over it, so be it. That doesn't mean I wouldn't do business with them at all. I have occasionally delivered pizza to people that I at least suspected were gay, but it's a short transaction usually taking a minute or less. An afternoon of catering is whole different situation.

As far as "No Christians Allowed", that may well be on its way. Murray v. Curlett opened the door to that and many other forms of discrimination against God and his people.

kavips
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 12:07am
If Pizza's car is spitting out nitrous oxide, no wonder after his run, his late night sputterings are so loopy....

(I know it was a typo, but I probably laughed more reading that than being gassed up in the dentist's office...

kavips
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 12:12am
Pizza, Governor Wallace hated blacks. He famously said "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever" then he was shot.

He had a black nurse. She became his best friend and he wrote a wonderful apology to black people everywhere telling them he'd been wrong...

Pizza, sounds like we need to find you a gay friend.

kavips
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 1:07am
Here is the rational for a REPUBLICAN judge, who is switching away his party... because of Pizza Principles...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtPdKjkcZCU

Now there will be only 5 Tea Partiers in Texas...

billsmith
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 5:18am
"As far as "No Christians Allowed", that may well be on its way. Murray v. Curlett opened the door to that and many other forms of discrimination against God and his people."

MikeFromDelaware: How did not allowing public schools to coerce non-Christian children into participating in the Lord's Prayer open the door to no Christians allowed? This is about not allowing the majority to enforce it's will on minorities. School boards are local (most places). So, how would you feel if you happened to live in a district in which a Catholic majority required the Hail Mary in school? Or where a Jewish majority required the Shema Ysrael? Or where an Islamic majority (and there are some) required students to get down on prayer rugs at the appointed times and face Mecca? Golden rule and all that?
________________

DENVER — A baker who refused to make a wedding cake for a same-sex ceremony must serve gay couples despite his religious beliefs or face fines, a judge said Friday.

The order from administrative law judge Robert N. Spencer said Masterpiece Cakeshop in suburban Denver discriminated against a couple "because of their sexual orientation by refusing to sell them a wedding cake for their same-sex marriage."

The order says the cake-maker must "cease and desist from discriminating" against gay couples. Although the judge did not impose fines in this case, the business will face penalties if it continues to turn away gay couples who want to buy cakes.
________________________________________
Baker must serve gay couples in same-sex wedding cake dispute, judge says

DENVER (AP) — A baker who refused to make a wedding cake for a same-sex ceremony must serve gay couples despite his religious beliefs or face fines, a judge said Friday.

The order from administrative law judge Robert N. Spencer said Masterpiece Cakeshop in suburban Denver discriminated against a couple "because of their sexual orientation by refusing to sell them a wedding cake for their same-sex marriage."

The order says the cake-maker must "cease and desist from discriminating" against gay couples. Although the judge did not impose fines in this case, the business will face penalties if it continues to turn away gay couples who want to buy cakes.
_________________________________

The above case this week is about making a cake for a wedding reception. The one in Washington was about selling flowers for a wedding. In neither case, was the baker or florist required to attend either event.

Why would you feel "uncomfortable" at a gay wedding? If a gay relative were getting married, would you refuse to attend? Refuse to send them a gift? Refuse to participate in any family gatherings at which they were present? You keep talking about not judging but it sounds like you do (and you condone others judging, too). Jesus hung out with hookers but you're too good to attend a gay wedding.

Pizza: Your made-up statistic are ridiculous. However, we already have driving and licensing restrictions targeting younger drivers. Driving is a privilege, not a right. Physical and mental decline are inevitable; it's not if but when. You'd be surprised how lax license renewal is some places. My mother was near blind and could no longer read but the State of Florida renewed her license for another seven years - no problem, no questions asked.

You seem to assume that anybody who doesn't agree with you or finds some your comments idiotic must be a liberal. No, that view is much more widespread.


billsmith
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 5:26am
One more example of god-fearing, freedom-loving Christians imposing their ideas on someone else. Above, see the story of a Catholic hospital using doctrine to deny proper medical care to woman. And now this...

__________________________________________
Catholic school teacher fired for gay wedding

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — A gay teacher at a Catholic high school was fired Friday after he applied for a marriage license.

Michael Griffin was fired from Holy Ghost Preparatory School after administrators said his obtaining a license to marry his same-sex partner was a violation of his contract.

Father James McCloskey, the school's headmaster, said in a statement that faculty at the school are required to follow church teachings, NBC Philadelphia reported.

billsmith
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 6:36am
Since Allan Loudell is so enamored of finding local connections...
Happy Birthday to the Queen of Delaware (New Sweden). Queen Christina (1626-1689). They named the fort after her. Butch lesbian and transvestite. Played on screen by fellow Swede and bisexual Greta Garbo. But since Christina was a lesbian, some of you might feel "uncomfortable" visiting her fort. And you might want to do something about all those school field trips there.

Mike from Delaware
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 8:08am
Billsmith: I think you've confused me with Mrpizza, I never said anything about the lack of school prayer & descrimination against Christians. Remember I advocate moment of silence. So I'm confused by your question.

mrpizza
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 8:31am
Glad I could stir the pot and get all you guys confused.

Wow! I'm having more fun than a human being should be allowed to have!

billsmith
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 8:37am
MikeFromDelaware: You're right. The comment was addressed to you, not from you. Sorry.

Pizza: Stealing lines from Rush, I see. No surprise.

kavips
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 11:06am
Pizza, must have been that nitrous oxide from making your runs last night...

kavips
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 11:11am
As with any new law it will take a while for things to settle out... I can remember as far back as when people thought breath analyzers were unconstitutional and that library cards were a government's tracking device...

The crackpots will always surface and when their predictions of doom do not pass... die off.

mrpizza
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 11:22am
If I was that baker in Denver I would pay the fines for that plus additional fines for contempt of court after I tell Judge Spencer to take his ruling and stick it.

mrpizza
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 11:24am
Kavips: Homosexuals don't fear God. If they did, they'd seek help in overcoming their unnatural sexual addiction.

mrpizza
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 11:29am
Hey Bill: I applaud the Catholic Church for standing for what's right and firing that teacher. If he wants to marry a man, there are plenty of homosexual churches that will give him a job. If the homos would just all move to Miami, there's more than enough room and welcome for all of them.

There's no reason for them to spread their pollution everywhere else where it's not wanted.

mrpizza
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 12:16pm
Hey Kavips, there's a big difference between blacks and gays.
God made black people black. The devil made gay people gay.
Now I don't have any problem with a gay friend, however continued association with that person will be conditional on them getting help for their problem. If I'm really going to be a friend to that gay person, then it's my job to confront their sin in order that their soul may be saved from eternal hell. Call me a bigot all you want. I'll wear that as a badge of honor, or as Paul the Apostle said "Count it all joy."

Furthermore, if I were a black person, I would be insulted that homosexuals have hijacked the rights that were won for me. As a Christian, I'm offended that they have hijacked marriage, a God-given institution between man and woman.
Soon, it won't just be same-sex marriage, but they'll be legalizing sex with children and animals.

Sure can't wait to see what that "mandog" is going to look like.

mrpizza
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 12:39pm
By the way, you guys leave those old folks alone. They have every right to ram their cars into anything they want. They have very little happening in their lives as it is. At least this brings them some excitement.

billsmith
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 12:47pm
Pizza: Sometimes they run into pedestrians, too. Or to 11 people in the check-out line at Trader Joe's. If you're ever one of the people they plow down, get back to us on whether you were pleased to have provided some excitement.

There's no "help" for being gay. Just as there's no help for being stupid, so we just have to put up with you.

For the record, my kindergarten teacher in my Missouri Synod parochial school was fired when they found out she was engaged to a Catholic.

billsmith
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 12:57pm
Ah, snow watch is active. And this time it's actually snowing. Not that cluttering up the radio reading school closings isn't an archaic waste under any circumstances. But it makes those who read them feel important.

Mike from Delaware
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 2:52pm
Mrpizza: so are you saying that someone who is gay/lesbian can not be a Christian? Last time I checked it's not works that get us saved, it is a free gift from God, lest anyone boast ( I didn't realize you became a Catholic - they believe in earning salvation through works - just one of those things Martin Luther tried to get changed with his 95 Thesis). So we ALL come to the foot of the cross as sinners, who deserve death, but God instead allowed the price of our sins to be paid for by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.

You don't take a bath before you take a shower? You don't change your life first so to clean yourself up to be saved. Christ accepts us just as we are, full of sin. God in his timing, love, & grace cleans us up. For some that may take years. That's up to God. He doesn't answer to us or our timetables.

So that means gay/lesbians are just as welcome in God's house as any straight person. Jesus came for all. It's not my place or yours to say to a gay/lesbian you need to change how they feel, short of a Miraculous Healing from God, they are not going to change anymore than I'd change & become a homosexual.

How can they get saved & receive grace from God if they are not allowed the church to hear God's Word proclaimed & to receive the sacred bread & wine of Holy Communion, where God also gives blessing & grace in receiving.

Just to be clear, that doesn't mean the church is not to teach proper doctrine & call any & all sin, sin. But just as you & I are welcome, so are those folks. We all need to receive God's grace.

billsmith
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 3:31pm
MikeFromDelaware: Again, you have one interpretation or version of Christianity. You think yours is right and all others are wrong. For the record, the Catholic Church does not teach salvation by works alone. And the 95 theses dealt with the sale of indulgences only. Other doctrinal issues came later. Luther was not trying to change anything at that point; just have a theological debate with other theologians.

Calvin taught that god's plan determines who is saved and who is not. God decided all this before the beginning of time. But I suppose you think all the reform branches of Christianity are wrong, too.

Interesting: A lot of people take showers after (sometimes before) going swimming.

Mike from Delaware
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 3:47pm
Whatever.

kavips
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 5:51pm
Pizza, if you are trying to show your gay friend the error of his ways... you should expect him to be simultaneously showing you, the error of yours...

What if you are wrong?

billsmith
Sun, Dec 8, 2013 5:56pm
Kavips: I'm sure the entire gay community is happy to have Pizza stay on the other team. If Pizza were anything other than hot air, he'd be the Carrie Nation of gay bars.

kavips
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 2:28am
I don't know. A guy who walks up to you door with Pizza, is always welcome....

mrpizza
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 3:13am
You guys still haven't commented on my other comparison of profiling old folks while it's illegal to profile blacks and Arabs, even though the victims of black thugs and terrorists are just as dead as the victims of old folks ramming their cars into a restaurant. Doesn't it seem a bit hypocritical to y'all?

billsmith
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 5:18am
Pizza: Yes, I have commented. Either you don't bother to read stuff or you lie.

Mike from Delaware
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 8:25am
Billsmith: here is an explanation of Catholic teaching on faith and works.

"We can’t have justifying faith and then good works as a result. Because unless you have good works then it is not a justifying faith. You can’t say that justifying faith is all that is required (and good works are just a natural consequence) when good works are necessary for the justifying faith in the first place! So a belief in “faith and works” is equivalent to a belief in some kind of “justifying faith” that includes good works. Trying to separate them is just confusing. This is why the Catholic Church insists on clarifying and recognizing that it is both “faith and works” not simply “faith alone.” It’s not one then the other (faith and then works). They are all caught up together by definition – faith and works."

http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/catholics-on-faith-and-works-clarified/

So I read that to mean that works are required, where as Luther said Faith Alone. I'll show you my works by my faith. So Lutheran teaching is a bit diffeent here than Catholic.

In one sense they are saying something similar, but yet different. Catholics are saying works are required for the faith to be real and Lutherans are saying, my works come because of my faith. Similar yet different.

Obviously there are numerous interpretations of how to practice Christianity, or there would be only one denomination, so why bash me for expressing how I view it?

I don't agree with Mrpizza's version that seems to imply that all gay/lesbians are going straight to Hell do not pass Go, do not collect $200 dollars, and unless they change and become hetrosexuals they can not enter Heaven. If I miss stated your beliefs Mrpizza, please offer correction, but that's how I took your post.

So I offered my view. Other Christians may have a third, fourth, and fifth view. We each believe we're correct as we currently understand God's Word. The smoked colored glass thing again. You want it all black and white where all Christians see and interpret it the same way. That stopped happening in the first century when Paul, Peter, and James disagreed about Gentiles not having to become Circumcized and follow Jewish dietary laws, both believed they were correct. Eventually God sorted it out. As he continues to do so through out the millenia's.

EarlGrey
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 10:15am
Wow...what happened to this thread? I was gone for the weekend and read the comments this morning.

kavips: EVEN your "best president ever ever ever to have existed in all eternity" has admitted he OWNS this $6 TRILLION of debt...so why can't you?
Bush accumulated a HUGE debt too and for that reason I have learned the lesson that I NEVER want another Big Government president on either side of the political aisle.

You claim I live in "non-reality" and I say you live in a Liberal Bubble...how about we place a friendly wager? In the upcoming 2014 elections if every Tea Party/Republican get trounced then I will concede you are correct (and change my username to your choice)...can you do the same if the opposite happens? Or are you incapable of acknowledging anything outside the Liberal/Progressive bubbles (DailyKos, DelLib or your little blog) are actually truth/reality?

If I'm right about the 2014 elections and Republicans do well...you can change your WDEL username to MrTea ;)

billsmith
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 10:42am
MikeFromDelaware: If good works come from faith, how do you explain good works from non-believers? And bad workers from believers?
It seems that fundamentalists, citing Luther, seem to have concluded that if one is saved by faith, then it doesn't matter what he does. He gets to heaven anyway and his bad deeds are nobody else's business.


kavips
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 11:09am
What's the point with Conservatives always making "friendly little wagers"? I remember Romney doing the same with Perry during the middle of a debate? It is as if they have no moral compass so right and wrong for them are only determined by who wins or loses a bet...

I'll take your bet but only if the prize is having to say I told you so. not much of one for me because I'm used to doing that more and more lately.

Unfortunately your price is too steep. There is too much behind that name to ever have it changed.

And since one tries to dodge the question by making a friendly wager, perhaps you would like to explain to all here, why Conservatives are so quick to put two wars, a prescription plan on the national credit card, instead of paying for it in taxing the top 1% as they went? Why Conservatives, despite solid Democratic opposition, led Congress to spend, spend, spend, with the mantra that... "Deficits do not matter"?

I did not know that Obama had taken over the responsibility for the Republican-caused debt. If so, that is one more feather in his headdress as the greatest president in our lifetimes. That is a rather high achievement and shows great moral character; something completely lacking among conservatives.

After all, Republicans never took credit for the Democrats balanced budgets and their surplus. Instead they squandered it. Democrats should not have, but still did take credit for the massive Republican debt they inherited... And they have now dropped the deficit considerably.... by finally raising taxes...

Oh did you hear the last economic reports? Seems like the economy under the new tax increases, is finally heating up...

Umm. you sure you still want to take that losing bet?

kavips
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 11:13am
Btw, there is no liberal bubble. There is the 1%., versus everyone else. One is either a Tea Party idolatress, or a normal hard working American. Liberalism died with the collapse of the Soviet Union

EarlGrey
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 11:25am
kavips: Since you fear losing (not willing to place your valued username on the line for your cause) I guess we see how strongly your believe in your claims. Not willing to pay your "fair share" when it comes to something of value to you? Hmmm, interesting how those who want to spend other's money/resources value their own "stuff".

And, as I keep saying, I am not happy with the either side of the political aisle that uses the "government credit card" to pay for government programs...no more Big Government-types! Bush was pro-big government as was Romney as is Obama and Hillary. I was against it when it was Bush and am against it with this current president! Yet, you don't seem to have a problem with this over-spending as long as it's "your Party" doing it.

And yes, I did hear the new economic reports and remain skeptical that it is all built on a "house of cards" that is devaluing the Dollar at an incredible rate...what next Quantitative-Easing V? This Fed has almost as many sequels as Rocky.

Mike from Delaware
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 11:57am
Billsmith: That is a good question.

I'm certainly no authority [I think you've picked up on that], but I believe that even non-believers can do good things, just as unfortunately believers can do bad things. The difference as I understand it is that prior to me coming to Christ, I didn't care about the wrong I did, because I didn't see it as being wrong or didn't care. With Christ [the Holy Spirit pricking my conscience and as I learn from studying God's word, etc] I now am far more aware of my wrongful acts and either avoid doing that sort of thing which should be the result of coming to Christ or repent when I have decided to do things my way as I've stumbled and fallen more times than I'd like to admit. The sinner saved by grace thing vs being able to "earn" salvation. So even though I did nice things prior to coming to Christ, now I desire even more to do nice things, because of whom dwells within me. Hopefully that translates into my life as me doing more good things or works than I did prior to coming to Christ. I can't explain it any better than that. For a better explanation you'll need to talk to someone who's a very spiritual person and who has a very close walk with Christ.

billsmith
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 1:03pm
MikeFromDelaware: Interesting. You probably won't agree with this but may find it interesting anyway. I recall reading a long time ago (long enough so I can't recall who wrote it) but the thrust of it was Christianity is about people's relationship with god and about getting to heaven. Judaism is about people's relationship with each other and about how you live this life.
I hope Christianity is wrong. It's concept of salvation does not appeal to me at all. My preference is reincarnation (and karma).

Mike from Delaware
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 1:34pm
Billsmith: Well Christ did pay the price for our salvation as the final sin offering [blood sacrifice] on the cross, so that we are made clean because of Christ, and acceptable to God thus the gift of salvation. So its seems to me that it's a multiple thing: Yes a relationship with God through his Son Jesus Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit does get us saved [or as you like to say our ticket to Heaven], but because of that relationship our works should be more focused on HIM and with that relationship so that our earthly actions should more mirror his than the worlds. Jesus did present us a model of what mankind was to be. Sadly most of us fail to be remotely close to his perfection.

So your preference is reincarnation and karma, so are you interested in or have you studied Hinduism? With reincarnation do you get to choose what you'll come back as or does the Goddesses [I know the Hindu's have a number of Goddesses they worship] choose what you'd come back as? That is a serious question, not making fun as I have no idea how that would work.

kavips
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 2:06pm
For those deluded that the Tea Party's disenfranchisement is not being driven by Obama's color, they should briefly look at these comments on Ted Cruz's own facebook page, castigating their hero, the senator, for saying a few kind words about Mandela...

http://thegrio.com/2013/12/06/ted-cruz-trashed-for-paying-tribute-to-nelson-mandela-on-facebook/

Although I'm sure none of Delaware's Tea Party supporters are this blatantly racist, they are still in the unenviable position of being looped in with psychopaths, as were good German citizens who supported a party called the Nazis. They stayed silent, and never wavered from their support, as the most evil among them moved forward towards their final solution to eradicate all Jews.... As then, your support of the Tea Party's hierarchy, gives support to your party's darkest elements. In the end, if you were a Nazi, you helped destroy Germany. if you are a Tea Partier. you are today destroying what's best of America and its Constitution.

EarlGrey
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 2:10pm
"I recall reading a long time ago (long enough so I can't recall who wrote it) but the thrust of it was Christianity is about people's relationship with god and about getting to heaven. Judaism is about people's relationship with each other and about how you live this life."~billsmith

bill: It's sad, but too many Christians fit in your description above; however, the true believers of Christ should be focused on both their relationships here and with God...and the focus on God should shine through in our relationships here on this plantet.

kavips
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 2:23pm
There is a very odd thread underlying Mr. Earl's betting bluff...

It is something rather curious and perhaps indicative of our times. His comment:

"I guess we see how strongly your believe in your claims. Not willing to pay your "fair share" when it comes to something of value to you? Hmmm"...

...seems to put a preference on believing something by how fervently someone else believes in it, over whether the facts behind it are true or false.

It is as if he has a complete disregard for facts, or at most, dismisses their importance. He seems willing to solely put a preference of his beliefs on how well someone else tells a story, over whether or not that story is true...

That is such a sea-change from how we saw things growing up. We really didn't believe the messengers, we needed facts on the ground in order to form our beliefs...

Choosing to believe in fabrication over reality, cannot be good for society in its long run...

This is just an amazing break-through and will take much study to collaborate. But it seems like Earl has hit on exactly how our civilization may be remembered from far into the future. A society where substance does not matter. This is fascinating. This bears more study.

EarlGrey
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 2:25pm
kavips: Yes, both sides have idiots who post stupid comments...would you like me to pull up almost anything said by the compassionate Progressives on the DailyKos about Sarah Palin? But, rather than focusing on the fact that the "evil" Ted Cruz had great things to say about Mandela let's focus on the idiots who posted on thegrio.com

EarlGrey
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 2:32pm
"Choosing to believe in fabrication over reality, cannot be good for society in its long run..."~kavips

Amen to that...as Bill Clinton said about this president..."He is a fairy tale"...too good to be true.

kavips
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 3:19pm
Sarah Palin and Mandela cannot even be considered equals. Sarah Palin at least deserves all her condemnation for it derives solely of her own stupidity. The condemnation against Mandela, was over his insistence that blacks were human beings too, and Tea Partiers simply cannot accept that.

billsmith
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 3:20pm
MikeFromDelaware: Again, you probably won't agree, but it seems sort of sick (and primitive) for a god to demand "blood sacrifice." I don't see any love in that.
Many religions accept reincarnation. My interest does not come from any dogma. It just seems to me that reincarnation is the best way to organize the universe. Some belief systems think you have a choice in how you come back; others think it is the consequence of your actions in life. The advantage of reincarnation is your lives are a series of learning experience and human perfection and growth is possible.
Hinduism, like other polytheistic religions, has male and female deities, as well as an overall creator. So did the ancient Hebrew religion. Yahweh even had a wife once upon a time.

kavips
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 3:24pm
Earl... where are you pulling out those quotes... when I try to pull up a reference, it pulls up Jesus.

And this "fairy tale" is getting results, unlike anything ever proposed by Republicans... Remember their rush to declare "Mission Accomplished"?

kavips
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 4:57pm
Just in Time for Christmas... For Mr Pizza and Earl....

http://www.coloringbook.com/ted-cruz-coloring-book.aspx

Don't say i never gave you anything... Merry Christmas!!

EarlGrey
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 5:30pm
kavips: So you mock Breitbart yet have the "moxy" to cite The Grio as a news source...LOL, maybe that's why you are the 1% True Believer who thinks this president has accomplished anything. Mock Bush all you want, I am not his cheerleader and he is no longer in office.

The Grio is an American website with news and video content geared particularly toward African Americans. Originally launched in June 2009 as a division of NBC News,it became a division of the progressive-leaning MSNBC cable channel in 2013.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grio

EarlGrey
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 5:38pm
Cruz to the Future is hilarious :)

kavips
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 6:16pm
As to the Grio... it was the quickest I could find... I was a little plussed to link to it, but then decided... heck, CBS, CNN, Fox get linked to all the time, none of which are any less biased than Grio, not one bit, and so I went ahead and quoted it against my natural impulses... So granted...

The score is kavips 240, Earl 1....

kavips
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 7:02pm
Since we have heard so many isolated horror stories over Obamacare by people no doubt who are horrified it will succeed, I thought I'd put a link of some good stories of Obamacare helping people out...

I apologize for the source, it is the New York Times, but I looked over at Breitbart, and they didn't have any positive stories at all...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/09/us/amid-the-uproar-over-the-health-law-voices-of-quiet-optimism-and-relief.html

Obamacare will only hurt 13 out of a thousand Americans. It will help or be a no-brainer to the other 987.....

billsmith
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 7:05pm
Funny. Grio is labeled "breaking African-American news and opinion." If somebody started a website called "breaking White news and opinion," all sorts of people would get their shorts twisted.

NBC is as spineless as Obama. And as incompetent.

mrpizza
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 7:16pm
Mike from Delaware: I'm writing back regarding your inquiry about my post on homosexuality. I was actually trying to specifically answer Kavips' post about needing a "gay friend". I also sense he's implying that if I had such a social experience that I would somehow become "enlightened" and accept homosexuality as normal and compromise biblical truth.

The context of my reply is from 1 Corinthians 5, in which Paul deals with a situation in the church where a man is having sexual relations with his stepmother and advises them that they must put him out of the fellowship until he repents, lest the entire church be corrupted. In my post, I stated that "continued" association would be conditional on repentance and seeking help, meaning that there would first be a season of showing love and compassion to try and bring them to repentance. Of course, if the person isn't saved in the first place, then that would have to be the first order of business and confront the sin later.

I don't take the absolute position that gays can't get into heaven if they're saved, but I'm very troubled at the growing normalization of homosexuality within the church walls. The Presbyterian church is ordaining homosexual pastors and you have Ray Boltz out there preaching a "homosexual gospel" and who knows what else. While I understand that salvation is by believing Acts 16:31, I think those who proclaim that God is the author of their homosexuality are treading a very fine line of possible damnation.

Mike from Delaware
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 10:11pm
Mrpizza: I re-read that passage in 1Corinthians 5 to refresh my memory. The study notes in my NIV Bible says that Cicero states that incest was practically unheard of in Roman society. His father's wife was used rather than his mother suggests that this was his step mother , which was prohibited such a marriage in Leviticus 18:8.

I better understand the point you were trying to make. Thanks for the scripture reference.

mrpizza
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 11:01pm
Kavips: Ho! Ho! Ho!

EarlGrey
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 11:45pm
The score is kavips 240, Earl 1....

That's funny...I thought you were opposed to Common Core curriculum ;)

kavips
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 12:11am
i am... but I'm not getting the connection with the score and Common Core? Can you stretch it out for me?

mrpizza
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 12:27am
Kavips: Stretching is what you do to pizza dough.

EarlGrey
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 1:07am
Kavips: You must have used Common Core standards to reach your totals on the score card ;)

Here is an example of a C.C. math problem our young kids are being taught:
http://twitchy.com/2013/12/06/unreal-check-out-this-ridiculous-common-core-math-problem-pics/

billsmith
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 4:09am
Once again, selective use of the Torah. Leviticus doesn't count - except when we want to count it. The law is fulfilled, so let's have bacon cheeseburgers and shrimp cocktails. But it still counts when we want to stick our noses into people's sex lives.

They shouldn't call it Christianity. They should call it "Paulism." St. Paul never met Jesus and was an agent of the Sanhedrin. He was a elitist, Hellenized, Sadducee. Until one day he shows up with some dubious story about a vision and wants to take over. The real Apostles figure they'll get rid of him by saying, "OK, you can go talk to the goyim." So, St. Paul decides to make "the product" more attractive by distorting the message of Jesus with all sorts of hellfire and brimstone and pagan theology. Meanwhile, he insists - in the Greek tradition - of traveling around the Mediterranean with young male companions (proteges), while denouncing everybody else. Thanks to St. Paul, Christianity became attractive to people like Pizza.

billsmith
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 4:48am
Christians are such wimps!

Snow is forecast. Light snow. Wintry mix. Any kind of winter weather.

What schools are quickest to say they will close? Who closes when other schools operate normally? Who closes when other schools have a two hour delay. Who stays closed the longest, sometimes days after all the roads are cleared?

Christian schools. What? Do they figure snow means god is telling them to stay home and make French toast (after stocking up on bread, milk and eggs at the Ak-A-Me)? Do they not know what to do because snow is not mentioned in the Bible?

kavips
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 7:29am
ok, thanks.. Earl...

By the way... it's snowing again....

Mike from Delaware
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 8:39am
EarlGrey: sadly there are bigots and racists in both parties [GOP/TEA and DEM], who are both white and black, it seems to be part of the human condition. Unfortunately Kavips hasn't learned that lesson yet, he only sees racists if they are white. That was one of the major points of the TV show "All in the Family", Archie Bunker and George Jefferson, one white the other black, were both as prejudiced as the other, one towards blacks and the other towards whites. Both were wrong.

However, equating Sarah Palin with Nelson Mandela isn't right either. Obviously no person should be a target, and in our political world some really get "egged", but politicians kind of set themselves up, especially incompetent ones like Palin. Mandela, on the other hand, was a great man who battled amazing odds to free his people in South Africa. His is a truly amazing story. The world has lost a great person.

Nothing blinds a person as much as hatred, prejudice, and racism. I'm sure someone famous must have said that, but I have no clue who, so if you know feel free to give them the credit for those words, I'd guess Martin Luther King, but am not sure. The way I try to look at it is, Christ shed his blood for all mankind, so if they were good enough for Jesus then they should be good enough for me.

billsmith
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 9:09am
MikeFromDelaware: No such quote. You said it. Take credit for it. No need to use somebody famous as an "authority."

Of course, love is also blind. Apparently any emotion is blinding. Mr. Spock didn't say that but maybe he should have.

In the gospel of political correctness only Whites can be racists. Only men can be sexist. With members of victim/entitlement groups such feelings are called "pride."

I don't think Palin deserves the punishment Martin Bashir described. I'd rather see her locked in a room with several dozen big, greasy, unwashed boozed up outlaw bikers.

Speaking of double standards: The media has gone beyond obsessive coverage of Mandela. No White foreign leader got this much over-coverage when he died. Not Gandhi. Not Churchill. Beyond that, the death of foreign leaders - even heroic ones - gets little notice in US media. The only foreign leader who got such extreme attention was Franco on Weekend Update.

In the world of political correctness, facts don't matter and significance doesn't matter. All that matters is the self-esteem of the members of victim/entitlement groups. So the media puff Obama as a candidate and now puff Mandela as a secular saint.

billsmith
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 9:49am
Joy to the Unbelievers!

FESTIVUS! The holiday for the rest of us.

Seem a group called "The Florida Prayer Network" got permission to set up a nativity scene in their state capitol building in Tallahassee. (They had a menorah for Hanukkah last week, too.)

Now, a Floridian got permission to also put up a Festivus Pole in the capitol rotunda - made out of used beer cans (Pabst Blue Ribbon).

Festivus is December 23rd, a non-commercial alternative to Christmas. In addition to the Festivus pole, Festivus also includes the Festivus Dinner, in which you air grievances (tell everyone how they disappointed you in the previous year). After dinner there are feats of strength (you wrestle the head of the family to the ground).

Thank you, George Costanza.

As usual, the "believers" don't like it that somebody else has been able to put up a display, too.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-12-09/news/os-festivus-florida-capitol-20131209_1_festivus-pole-chaz-stevens-nativity-scene

Mike from Delaware
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 10:31am
Billsmith: Those believers are wrong. If they allow the Menorah [Jewish] and the Nativity [Christian], they have to allow others to share their beliefs too. It works for all or it works for no one.

I said, "Nothing blinds a person as much as hatred, prejudice, and racism." Thanks Bill for the clarification.

To be honest, I've not had the radio or TV on much the last few days so I've missed all that coverage.

EarlGrey
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 11:55am
Mike: Your George Jefferson/Archie Bunker example perfectly states what I was attempting to say...thanks :)

I was not comparing Palin's achievements to Mandela's... simply stating that once the woman's name is mentioned, Liberals/Progressives make some extremely vile/hateful comments on those blogs.

billsmith
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 1:22pm
I wonder how much coverage Sarah Palin's funeral will get. I hope we don't find out soon. Palin is hot. She has spent her whole life getting the attention that hot mean girls get - starting in middle school. I'd love to see her get old and spend a couple of decades as a mean, dried-up, wrinkled old hag who gets ignored by the people who used to suck up to her. Aches and pains from old sports injuries would be nice, too.

It would also be nice to see her in a position where she needs help, and can't get it because of political positions she took.

However, I really do like both Tina Fey and Julianne Moore.

Mike from Delaware
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 1:24pm
EarlGrey: She does have that affect on folks. Unfortunately, people go over the top and she doesn't deserve that.

As long as she's not running for Prez or VP [or Senator/Represpentative from Delaware], she's a none issue for me. Same with Christine O'Donnell.

Mike from Delaware
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 1:26pm
Billsmith: I too like Tina Fey, she did a great Palin.

billsmith
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 2:13pm
MikeFromDelaware: If you haven't seen it, you should get "Game Change." Julianna Moore also does a great Palin and the movie offers some good insights on the 2008 Republican campaign (and on Palin).

I guess she's sort of the female Dan Quayle. Amazing the kind of people the Republican Party brings to prominence. Palin. O'Donnell. Quayle. Dubya. Cruz. It's sort of like a special ed hall of fame.


Mike from Delaware
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 3:03pm
Billsmith: I'll have to see if Netflix has it. Sounds interesting.

Mike from Delaware
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 3:13pm
Speaking of Sarah Palin, she apparently is getting a new TV show on the Sportmans' Channel. They ordered 12 episodes. From what I heard the show will be about hunting, fishing, and outdoors. From what they said, she's distancing herself from politics. If that last part is true, that would be a good thing for the G.O.P./TEA party.

billsmith
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 5:14pm
Sportsman Channel? Never heard of it.
I looked it up, however, and it seems they carry a "news magazine" produced by the NRA. I guess her distance from politics isn't that much. Still a long way down from Fox News.

kavips
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 5:56pm
Have to dispute your claims that blacks are racist or women are sexist.. Of course anyone can twist words around, but until blacks own plantations, and can buy and sell white people, force them to pick cotton balls off prickly sticks, split up their families, whip, rape, and hang them from oak trees without facing any reprisals, until white people have to pay money to vote, have to answer impossible trivia questions about African culture, have to sit at separate lunch counters, have to sit in back of buses, have to pee in separate urinals, have areas in which they are not allowed to buy houses despite the cash on hand they have, even after whites fought for the same countries as did blacks for the preservation of the nation.... until that time comes, black people can't be racists. They may be bitter, but that, is spelled b-i-t-t-e-r and not... as r-a-c-i-s-t...

And if any of you run into a black who is not bitter, who has forgiven and forgotten.. you can thank Jesus for it. For without Jesus, no man or woman could ever forgive the way whites treated black people... That is racism...

Blacks can't be "racists" until they get their turn to run the plantation...

billsmith
Tue, Dec 10, 2013 7:27pm
Kavips: It doesn't take a plantation to be racist. All it takes, as MikeFromDelaware noted, is hate and prejudice. And in case you haven't noticed, plantation slavery of Blacks ended sometime ago. Slavery thrived in this country because it was commonly practiced by Africans, who sold off their surplus for exports.

Listen to so-called Urban talk radio sometime. It is the vilest "kill Whitey" hate speech.

And then there's sexism. Women playing victim and having pity parties when women control most of the wealth in this country and - as the song says - learn early "to open doors with just a smile." But they can fill the media with male bashing and judgmental male stereotyping.

Playing victim works. What's surprising is a smart guy like you falls for it.

I was taught early on that prejudice and discrimination were wrong - and back then it supposedly worked in my favor. I'm sure as hell not going to say it's OK when it works against me.

kavips
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 12:14am
Point being made is one man's justice, is interpreted by others as racism. Racism is fine when on top. now only when on the bottom do whites pull the card and complain...

Pretty pathetic to say women can't appreciate attention, and stand up for themselves as well. Problem never was women. Problem was always men...

billsmith
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 12:55am
Kavips: Thank you for demonstrating the upside-down, through the looking glass, self-loathing logic of political correctness. You people are no different, no better than the tea baggers. Both are in a race to ruin the country, each in your own way, and always at the expense of others. If you feel over-burdened by some undefined White liberal guilt, that's your business but don't try to make me pay for it.

It's not about appreciating attention. It's about how women use their "wiles" to manipulate men. Women get men, especially men like you, to do whatever they want and then complain about being victims. Women want to take time off to "have it all" and complain of "glass ceilings." Women complain of unequal pay and expect guys to pick up the check. And women put on slutwear and complain about male attention.

By the way, does joining the feminazi pity party and doing the I-feel-your-pain routine ever get you laid?

Mike from Delaware
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 8:29am
Billsmith said, "Sportsman Channel? Never heard of it.
I looked it up, however, and it seems they carry a "news magazine" produced by the N.R.A. I guess her distance from politics isn't that much. Still a long way down from Fox News."

I never heard of it either. I agree, that's quite a step down from being on Fox News.

According to an article on Wikipedia as of August 2013 approximately 27.87% of households with television receive the Sportsman Channel.[Jump up ^ Seidman, Robert (August 23, 2013). "List of How Many Homes Each Cable Networks Is In - Cable Network Coverage Estimates As Of August 2013". TV by the Numbers. Zap2it. Retrieved September 6, 2013.]

Maybe they hope by having the "Alaskan Grizzly Barbie" on their network the other 72.13% of American homes with TV will bug their cable companies to carry the Sportsman Channel.

They would have drawn a larger audience with Tina Fey - heh heh.

EarlGrey
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 8:47am
Mike: Tina Fey is funny and does a great Palin impression;however ,she doesn't hunt (Palin does) and she isn't a big 2nd Amendment fan...Palin is a N.R.A. Life Member.

billsmith
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 10:08am
Apparently Comcast doesn't carry the Sportsman channel in this area (although they have it some other regions). FIOS has it but only on their most expensive pricing tier. Dish and DirecTV also have it on some pricing tiers.

Interesting how people who enjoy killing animals like to call themselves "sportsmen."

I wonder how much cable systems (meaning us) have to pay for this channel - watch it or not. Just another one of those cable channels I would never consider watching and every time I think about all those channels I would never consider, I start wondering if I really need cable. And I really resent how I can't just pick the channels I want and pay only for those.

How many receive and how many ever watch are two very different things. 27.87 is about the lowest - if not THE lowest - receive percentage for all but the premium channels.



Mike from Delaware
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 10:20am
EarlGrey: Yea, I know that Tina Fey isn't a hunter, but if I had the Sportman's Channel, I'd be far more inclined to watch if Ms. Fey were the star rather than Ms. Palin. If Hillary or Biden were the stars I'd not watch either. If Dick Chaney were the star, I wouldn't watch, would hate to actually see him shoot someone. I also wouldn't watch if Bush Jr were the star, because it would be so embarassing to watch him shoot himself in the foot - heh heh.

kavips
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 12:03pm
BillS ... This is hilarious but apparently you seem to think I'm a man, and you seem to think that I am white. Take those two out of the equation, and your statements are extremely ridiculous.

"You people" = "women, blacks"
"Women 'get' men" = ignoring that men "get" women all the time
"taking time off" = giving birth
"glass ceilings" = "male dominant work places"
"unequal pay" = 77 cents per every $1.00 for men
"expect guys to pick up the check" = don't see you getting groped on dates
"slutware" = current fashion
complaining of "male attention" = complaining of "fat, ugly, obnoxious, pot-bellied, impotent, stubble faced, one track minded, ridiculously stupid, male attention"..

As for getting laid by joining a feminine nazi party... well yes, if one is into feminine nazi's... lol.

BillS, In the public's eye, you now literally look stupider than Earl.... Ha, ha, ha.... Enjoy the fame.



EarlGrey
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 1:02pm
...ah kavips, and I thought we were doing so well for a while being civil and having actual discussions...pity.

Bad mood due to BHO's latest approval ratings? 38%..ouch!

billsmith
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 1:52pm
Kavips: Thank you for some PC myths. Not true but sometimes entertaining. You PC types are true believers just like the Jesus freaks. Different myth set, but you all are just as dogmatic and locked in.

Men "get" women? In what reality is that? You must be gay and therefore not a player in the Mars--Venus game.

billsmith
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 2:53pm
Pope Francis has been named Time Magazine's "person (previously 'man') of the year." He follows Pope John XXIII (1962) and Pope John Paul II (1994).

Mike from Delaware
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 3:38pm
Kavips: I've been following your discussion with Billsmith about racism, and I assume by what you wrote that because Blacks were slaves they have the right to hate White people thus it isn't racism. Even though none of those folks who were slaves are alive today. Even though, for example, my family didn't arrive at Ellis Island until around 1910 and were themselves poor living in the same neighborhoods along Front Street as many Black families.

So using your logic that means the Jews should be able to say hateful things about blacks and it wouldn't be racist, because Africans [Egyptians] held the Jews in slavery during the time of Moses. Slavery is slavery.

Or the Jews should be allowed to hate the Germans who killed 6 million of them and put the rest in Concentration Camps, or many white Americans who were tortured and kept in concentration camps in Japan should be able to say hateful things about the Japanese. Also the Japanese Americans who were put in American interment camps during the that same war then should be able to hate all of us Americans be we white, black, or brown. The American Indian, who essentially had their land stole right out from under their feet also should be able to hate ALL landowning Americans who are black, brown, yellow, and white, as we're living on their land and claiming it to be ours.

All through history various peoples have been enslaved and been abused by some other group, not just in the US, but all over the world.

I'm not saying we should ever forget what happened here anymore than we should never forget the Halocaust, but we can't live in the past either. As the US has made major efforts to change all that past, especially since the 1970's with Affirmative Action where white males have been systemantically told you need not apply, because we're offering these jobs, seats for admission to college, etc, to minorites and women. I've seen that many times during the past 40 years. Is our nation perfect? No, but it's a far cry from the 1940's, 50's and 60's.

The issue is, you don't stop discrimination by changing who's getting discriminated. The ONLY way to end discrimination is to STOP ALL discrimination. The best qualified person should get the job period. The best qualified student should get admitted to college, etc, etc.

When you go for surgery, do you prefer a black or white surgeon? I prefer the one who's the best, I don't give a rip if the person is male, female, white, or black.

When you fly on an airline, do you want a black or white pilot. Again, I don't give a rip if the person is male, female, white or black, I want the best pilot I can get who'll land that plane safely, not someone who looks like me, and barely passed their flight school training. Only an idiot would think like that. So if that's how you truly think, then I guess I'm calling you an idiot and a racist.

You obviously didn't listen to Martin Luther King's speeches very closely. Unless he used a special code for blacks that white folks didn't know, I never hear him utter anything close to what you've been posting on this subject.

Somehow I don't believe Rev. Dr. King would agree with your posts on this topic.

billsmith
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 4:03pm
Only members of designated and official victim/entitlement groups are allowed to hate.
This excludes the Irish (who are not allowed to hate Brits).
And the Armenians (who are not allowed to hate Turks).
And the Palestinians (because Israelis have prior claim on victim/entitlement status).

And if I get on airplane or go in for surgery, I really don't want someone who got accepted for training, graduated and was certified and then got hired because of affirmative action. If you see a Black pilot or surgeon, there will always be that question.

King is the one who said he looked for a day when people won't be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. But then affirmative action came along.


kavips
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 5:48pm
Texas is the best answer for those who argue against affirmative action...

Just as soon as the Supreme Court ruled against affirmative action this year, Texas (that very day) changed their voting laws to disenfranchise blacks and Mexicans...

It shocked all of us who thought racism was dead... As long as the Tea Party is still considered a viable political outlet for those who insist on white male supremacy, apparently there is still a need for affirmative action....

The Tea Party by their actions, insist on it.... First rid ourselves of the Tea Party, then we can get rid of affirmative action...

kavips
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 5:51pm
To BillS...

Your quote... "Men "get" women? In what reality is that?"

To use a euphemism, it is sort of like... "put out or get out... and walk the 48 miles home."

Mike from Delaware
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 6:08pm
Kavips: What changes did Texas make to their voting laws that disenfranchised Blacks and Mexicans?

Are you saying a requirement to show a valid state ID or Driver's License? I've had to show my valid state drivers license each time I go to the polls here in Delaware to vote for as far back as I can remember, so why should it be different for Texas?

The idea of that is LEGAL citizens get to vote. My wife doesn't drive and yet she has a legal ID for Delaware. It's not a big deal to get one, but of course you do have to be a citizen, thus the rub for illegals.

Not exactly sure why this would be an issue for Blacks, they're citizens [I'm assuming that Africans, Haitians, and Jamaicans aren't sneaking into the US via the Mexican border as I've never heard of that being a problem, so I'm assuming most Blacks living here are legal]. But again, if you're Black and a legal American, what's the issue? If you don't have a legal state ID go get one. That's not discrimination.

With all the illegal Mexicans living in this nation [approximately 12 million], who do not get to vote as they are NOT citizens, showing your valid legal state ID or Drivers License makes total sense.

THAT is not a discriminatory practice. Having a literacy test as the South used to have years ago that was just for Blacks WAS discriminatory, because ONLY Blacks were given the test. So if Texas is ONLY requiring Blacks and Hispanics to show a legal ID or drivers license, then YES that would be discriminatory, but if ALL Texans must show that ID/license, then its NOT discriminatory. There's a major difference.

kavips
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 6:46pm
Yes Mike... that is the one.

No black, even if they've lived in Texas for 90 years, which would make them an absolute citizen, (probably fought in WWII), can vote unless they get a new voters ID card and to get it, they must go down to some office somewhere, present their marriage license, both birth certificates, social security cards, and current up to date drivers license, as well as proof of residence to get a newly issued Texas voter registration card to allow them to vote in Texas' elections...

It is a deliberate attempt to keep the vote white. It has nothing to do with illegals voting. An illegal would be scared he'd be deported, ever to step into a voting booth.. That is the most ridiculous notion to speculate upon... Just like thinking a felon is going into a police station to swear out a warrant against someone else... Sometimes we all have to wonder where your head is at...

Do you remember Speaker of the House... Jim Wright? He had John Boehner's position under Reagan and Bush I; he took over after Tip O'neil? This past election, he couldn't even vote (it was eventually forced through when publicity hit) because while in the nursing home, his license had expired (who needs a current license in a nursing home?)...

That is the negative. So what is the percentage of voter fraud occurring today..? Somewhere close to 0.00000007 percent...

So Texas is stopping 10,000,000 people from voting, and has 3 people committing voter fraud.

Keep the vote white is what Voter ID is all about. That you support it, is surprising.


All courts, other than the Supreme Court which misguidedly thought like some on this thread that oversight of voter's laws is no longer needed, think voters rights out-rank fraud.. Voters should not be restricted...

billsmith
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 7:02pm
One problem Kav: Whites have to show ID, too.
And this is a society in which it's impossible to do almost anything without valid ID.

kavips
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 8:37pm
No BillS it isn't... there is a large segment of our society that does not have a valid ID to their name... They know their social security number, and they've been working the same job for 20 years... The get their checks cashed on the spot.

Either grandfather ID's to all these people without proof, or not allow them period when it comes to voting... Anything that picks and chooses who gets them, is solely to disenfranchise a certain segment of voters.

There are white people without ID's as well. Jim Wright was white.


Mike from Delaware
Wed, Dec 11, 2013 10:55pm
Kavips: do the whites have to show this new Voters ID in Texas or is it just the blacks?

What doesn't make sense to me is you're saying there are 90 yr olds in Texas who've never had any sort of ID? So how do they or others prove who they are when they go to vote, go to a bank, want to buy a pack of smokes, want to buy a beer in a bar, or get a senior discount at some store or restaurant, etc?

Anyone can show up at the polling place & use your name. The ole Chicago thing where the old joke goes: Grandpa voted Republican his entire life, after he died he voted Democrat.

What you described about needing all those documents seems excessive. Seems that if you have a state issued ID or drivers license then that should be enough ID.

I see your point about illegals not wanting to go near a polling place. The story about Jim Wright is interesting too. Sounds like maybe we need one national standard for this to keep states from disenfranchising folks & from being excessive.

No program should target one group (like blacks) & not target the others (white, yellow, brown, or red).

Seems like there's something missing in your discription of what's going on in Texas.


billsmith
Thu, Dec 12, 2013 5:37am
Kavips: You PC types lie - make up stuff - to support your positions, even more than tea baggers. What percentage of people don't have ID? And cite the source. Put up or shut up. How do these people operate without valid, legal ID? How do they operate a motor vehicle, open a bank account, get credit, rent an apartment or buy booze, or do any number of things for which people are routinely asked for ID?

Now, I am not so worried about so-call "voter fraud." If it happens, all evidence suggests it's miniscule. It's just one more thing to stir up the crazies. But it's disgusting the way you equally brainwashed PC'ers play the victim/entitlement card to fight it. Maybe somebody so isolated that they live without ID in modern society shouldn't be allowed to vote in the first place.
When this came up before the last election, NPR trotted out as the poster child for people without ID, some geezer who lives on a cul de sac in an upscale suburban neighborhood around here. He'd stopped driving, let his license lapse, and didn't have current non-driver ID. And this old fart was moaning about what hardship it would be for him to go to the license office and get an ID. They have those geezer vans that take people shopping and whatnot but, no, it's too much a hardship. We should all feel bad because grandpa doesn't like to leave the house even once. Besides, if he doesn't want to leave the house, how is this guy going to vote? Oh, yes, absentee. Well, if you're registered, you don't need photo ID for that (at least not in Delaware).

billsmith
Thu, Dec 12, 2013 5:42am
FROM THOSE WONDERFUL FOLKS WHO BROUGHT US OBAMA...
The Chicago Daley Machine.
Obama who spies on U.S. citizens and sends SEALS (hit squads) and drones to kill people, including U.S. citizens.
Obama, who has people tortured and locked up indefinitely, without a shred of due process.
That's the Chicago way.

______________________
"PONTIAC, Ill. (AP) — During his more than 30 years behind bars, Stanley Wrice insisted he was innocent, that Chicago police had beat him until he confessed to a rape he didn't commit. On Wednesday, he walked out of an Illinois prison a free man, thanks to a judge's order that served as a reminder that one of the darkest chapters in the city's history is far from over....

Wrice, who was sentenced to 100 years behind bars for a 1982 sexual assault, is among more than two dozen inmates — most of them black men — who have alleged they were tortured by officers under the command of disgraced former Chicago police Lt. Jon Burge in a scandal that gave the nation's third-largest city a reputation as haven for rogue cops and helped lead to the clearing of Illinois' death row. Some of the prisoners have been freed; some are still behind bars, hoping to get the kind of hearing that Wrice got that eventually led to his freedom."
_____________________________


billsmith
Thu, Dec 12, 2013 6:24am
WEED IS NOW LEGAL IN URUGUAY!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-25328656

billsmith
Thu, Dec 12, 2013 7:14am
""unequal pay" = 77 cents per every $1.00 for men"

Kav: PS: Bull! This is also a lie, as in lies, damn lies, and statistics. A woman doing the same work, at the same level, and with comparable performance, gets the same pay. The problem is equal work is not always equal. Men and women make different career choices, which affect their earning ability and their value to their employer. Women want to "have it all;" men are more likely to be singled-minded about their work. And from what I've seen, a lot of women aren't even 77% as productive as their male co-workers. (I know that goes against PC dogma and will get your "true believer" feathers ruffled.)

In PC Land, men and women are the same. Pay no attention to all that medical research about how male and female brains differ; or all the social research about how men and women operate differently. Oh, no. Correctness trumps truth.

EarlGrey
Thu, Dec 12, 2013 9:24am
I have a few questions for those who want pot legalized:

1. Would it be OK to smoke this newly legal product? Most health-insurance companies will either not cover smokers or charge higher rates (no pun intended) for smokers and their families.

2. What does research say about cancer rates related to smoking pot?

3. How will police enforce DWH (driving whilst high)? How can they tell if the driver is completely stoned, buzzed, or just naturally mellow?

I am actually fine with legalizing pot and ridding our jails of "pot-offenders" from the system... to me it makes more sense to legally sell pot vs. hard liquor. The biggest issue I have is how pot smoking will affect cancer rates...especially among the young.

billsmith
Thu, Dec 12, 2013 11:46am
Earl: (1) OK, how? Insurance companies have a lot less discretion under ACA to reject applications or deny claims. But surcharges for heavy weed use, as for other "bad habits," would not seem unreasonable. (2) Not much research has been done on long-term health affects of using grass and such research should be done and probably will be if grass is legal. Grass does not contain nicotine but joints do contain the substances called "tars" in cigarettes (much less so, if a pipe is used). (3) Grass has a heavy and distinctive smell. It gets into your clothes. In addition, the physical symptoms of marijuana intoxication should be enough to give a cop probable cause to get a drug test. They are working on this aspect now in Washington State and Colorado. And cops already drive while high and cops have experience dealing with it (especially in college towns).



EarlGrey
Thu, Dec 12, 2013 12:56pm
bill:
I wonder how many people would actually admit to smoking weed if it's going to raise their insurance bill...especially if it's unknown whether or not pot is more or less likely to cause health issues due to the lack of research.

And to your point #3...not if you use a vaporizer pipe or eat "special" brownies ;)

billsmith
Thu, Dec 12, 2013 1:11pm
Earl: How do they deal with tobacco smokers, heavy drinkers, the obese? If marijuana is a comparable health risk - if - insurance companies could deal with it the same way they deal with all the other health risks. The available evidence - admittedly more is needed - suggests weed is less of a health risk than tobacco or booze. The main risks now associated with marijuana occur BECAUSE it is illegal and therefore the business is left to professional criminals and outside government regulation (and taxation) - just like booze during Prohibition.

kavips
Thu, Dec 12, 2013 1:24pm
Wow, a lot of questions...

Mike, In your travels you know how things are in rural areas. If you've known Joe all your life, you don't ask him for an ID when he gets beer,; you know where he lives; you know where he works; you know where he hangs out. Joe doesn't drive so a license is out; the bank knows him; he just needs a deposit slip... IDs are a very new phenomenon and I would say, didn't really come into fashion until after 9/11.... He probably has some ID in his house, but, and it is obvious you have not been called to the DMV for your new Federal Driver's License, but when that happens, you need an original Birth Certificate with embossed seal, or official certification thereof from your birth state's office of vital statistics. (Your own photocopy that your parents gave you in 1994 in case you misplaced your original, won't do). You need a real Social Security card, which most people lose in their thirties, and which you can't get unless you have a valid up-to-date driver's license or state ID, which you also can't get unless you have a valid Birth certificate and valid Social Security Card.... If you lose any one of those documents, you cannot get any of the other documents either, because you are missing the one document you are originally applying for....
And the funny thing is that they have your entire history on their computers...

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2005/rpt/2005-r-0482.htm

And if you are a woman who has remarried, oh man, you are in trouble... You have to prove your journey from one name-change to the next. If one of those ex's was from Texas, you're in trouble.) Don't take my word for it; just ask George Strait.

http://www.delawarepolitics.net/delaware-politics-and-tidbits-read-it-and-weep-the-5513-edition/

As for how many... It takes a study, or enforced usage of ID and then someone to follow up to count all those who don't have IDs... Both cases require a massive operation so it will be a while before we fully know how many do not have ID's.

Here is the results of one study: A study by the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee found that in Milwaukee County, Wisconsin, 74 percent of African-Americans and 66 percent of Hispanics aged 18 to 24 did not have a valid driver’s license — which is the most common form of photo identification.

http://www4.uwm.edu/eti/barriers/DriversLicense.pdf

Someone brought up banks? 10-million households don't have a bank account. or 8.2%...

http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/12/pf/fdic-bank-accounts/index.html

The portion of Americans with no ID is so high, here is a brief describing the Circuit Judge's reasoning for filing a temporary injunction against the voting ID law of Gov. Scott Walker.

http://www4.uwm.edu/eti/2007/VoterID.htm

As the New York Times notes, just getting off work and attempting to get one of these ID's requires losing a day's wages....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/opinion/27wed1.html?_r=0

The Brennan Center for Justice of New York School of Law, determined that 21-million of Actual American Citizens or 11%, do not have valid proof of their citizenship. Particularly it notes women do not have proof of citizenship for their current name...

http://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/d/download_file_39242.pdf

As BillSmith noted voter fraud is practically non-existent. Brownback's Kansas, which passed a voter ID bill, had only one prosecution of voter fraud (he was innocent) in the past 5 years, but disallowed 11% or 670,000 voters from voting, according to the League of Women Voters who challenged the law...

http://www.lwvk.org/PDF/stateVOTER/11janVoter.pdf

So as to how many disenfranchised voters there might be, I can't really say, but considering that elections are not supposed to decide how the wealthy want them decided, but are to be based on how the wealthy, middle-class, and unwealthy all want things decided, disenfranchising voters by these ID type laws is un-American.

These are estimates but they are estimates from people who spent a lot of time on the ground, checking out how many and how much of society this would affect....

What is breathtakingly evident is the gulf between the lives these people have to live, and the opinions expressed on this very blog... If racism is interpreted as too harsh a term, perhaps ignorance is a more appropriate and fitting term, since often racism has a bitterness-quotient that I would readily admit, is not prevalent here...

When one sees how the lower 40% of America have to live... one simply cannot continue onward as a Republican... It is physically impossible... one's digestion system would not allow it...

Only by putting yourself in a box, and allowing no windows at all, covering ones eyes, ears and leaving one's mouth open to spout insanities, can one even be a Republican in this day and age....



EarlGrey
Thu, Dec 12, 2013 3:05pm
bill: Good points...I guess it just seems odd that smoking pot would be deemed acceptable after cigarette smokers have been "shamed" and "shunned" by the P.C. police. Most businesses today only allow smoking in small areas out on the loading docks or somewhere else unseen by all.

billsmith
Fri, Dec 13, 2013 6:35am
Earl: I can't picture weed smoking being as ubiquitous as cigarette smoking in old movies and TV shows. I imagine people would do it in the same kinds of situations in which people now drink. At home, at parties, or in hash houses (like Amsterdam). Marijuana is not addictive, so people wouldn't have to sneak out of work every hour or two for a fix like they do with butts.

Got a DVD of Dr. Kildare (Richard Chamberlain and Raymond Massey). Strange to see a hospital full of MDs lighting up at every opportunity - in a doctor's office, in a group talking in a hallway, stepping out of the OR ... Apparently, the sponsor was a cigarette company. I read that originally, MGM had planned to bring back Lew Ayres, Dr. Kildare in the movies, as an older mentor to a young physician (as Lionel Barrymore's Gillespie has been to him) but Ayres insisted on no docs smoking and MGM decided to reboot the franchise. Also strange to see hot female patients and nurses throwing themselves at Chamberlain. Boy, did they get a wrong number! Otherwise, the shows held up pretty well.



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